kometbomb
Offline

I can't think of any situation where just adjusting the attack level would create a shape different to what you can create with the simple envelope. if you want to attenuate the peak, just adjust the volume and adjust the sustain level louder to compensate. Like this:

I do of course see the benefits of an FT2 style envelope where you basically draw the envelope shape and set the sustain point.

Re: .hvl. Perhaps, though of course the import usually works correctly for only the pattern data.

Last edited by kometbomb (Feb 25, 2015 8:25 am)

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

This enveloppe forces you to always start at 0. No matter what you do, your attack phase starts at 0 volume. With FM synthesis, this is the very worst place to start modulating because at 0 volume you basically have the original waveform without an FM on it, and once it goes up, there's a distinct change of character in the sound that rarely sounds good, or musical. The possibility to start higher makes it possible to have an FM sound with a rise phase, but still starts in "the modulated range"

To say that you don't want to implement it is one thing, but to say there is no situation where this can be more useful than ADSR is just plain wrong. I don't think the fine chaps at Yamaha decided to use complex envelopes just because they wanted to make FM even less accessible. It's there for a reason.

Last edited by n00bstar (Feb 25, 2015 3:19 pm)

kometbomb
Offline

Ah, the starting point. Well, that I can add.

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

Even more tutorials nobody will ever read or use! I just finished covering every single command. Took about five years to write.

http://n00bstar.blogspot.ca/

kometbomb
Offline

Btw, n00bs. Do you find the envelope timings useful? I compared the values to SID envelope timings and it seems SID has a lot more variety in the fast end of the scale. With a SID you can get 0.5 ms, 1 ms, 3 ms, 5 ms, 10 ms and so on while in klystrack it's like 0 ms, 1 ms, 5 ms, 13 ms, 30 ms ... attack/decay times.

I was thinking maybe I should adjust the values so you get much sharper attacks and decays. I am not sure but I have a feeling a lot of SID tunes get their sharp sound from that alone.

Edit: Notes on the tutorial (which is great once again!):

Absolute arpeggio note is useful if you want to have e.g. a combined drum and bass instrument with the drum part always playing at the same frequency and then the bass part of course following the played note. This might fall in the "was useful in the 80s, not so much anymore" category.

Using 7Cxx (xx = tick where the release happens, just noticed the help box doesn't give any indication of this param) to release the note is useful if you want to release the note on the same row as you trigger it. I think I put it there for the Cave Story format importer to support notes that are half a row long. But of course if you are using quite fast speeds it's not that terrible to actually put the release on the next row. It's kinda the envelope counterpart of ECx.

Last edited by kometbomb (Mar 2, 2015 8:07 am)

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

Hmm yeah faster envelopes would *definitey* be an improvement. I've become accustomed to it by now of course, but yeah, there's a huge gap between an attack of 0 and 1. Sometimes you don't want that pop/click that comes with 0 attack, but setting it to 1 just kills the snappy sharp character of the sound. So yeah, if you want to add that it would be amazing!

7Cxx = Ah! I'll update that right away. I've played with it a lot to figure it out, but only with one channel playing so I didn't catch the difference by tick since nothing else was triggered at the same time.

Absolute Arp = Well.... I think "useful" is too big a word for it really. I understand what it can be used for, but unless you're trying to show off technical wizardry in your pattern editing, there's really no reason to use that command. For the same kick+bass effect in fact, I'd recommend people use 11xx or 12xx instead because it's much simpler to move in semitones from your kick's note than to input an absolute value.

kometbomb
Offline

Just posted this: https://github.com/kometbomb/klystron/r … g/1.6-beta

Klystrack moved to GitHub (Google shuts down Google Code this year), the new home page is this: http://kometbomb.github.io/klystrack/ (it's just a placeholder for now, I'll move the wiki there soon and add a binary download section as on the old page)

New stuff in this build: Rob Hubbard SID import (not perfect at all), added that FM envelope fix, fixed not all wavetable items being saved when stripping unused data, About -> Song statistics shows some information about the song etc.

mk
Offline

Would be great to get the osx build in line with the win build smile

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

How about fixing the fucking crashes instead of adding pointless features like knowing the size of the header? Do you even use your own software? Do you know how often this shit crashes? It's so fucking frustrating to lose entire songs because you don't care about fixing bugs, just adding more and more crappy options that make the whole thing even more unstable.

kometbomb
Offline

Can I use that quote as a reference for the new homepage?

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

Hahaha. Here's a few suggestions:

"Klystrack: A chipt-------"
"Klystrack: the best tracker you'll ever hate"
"Klystrack's Law: Save often because it crashes a lot. Which increases your chances of it crashing while it saves and corrupt your file. No way out."
"Klystrack: Hear n00bstar whine like a bitch again"
"Klystrack: No we don't play old song files"
"Klystrack Minimum Requirement: Cray XK7"

kometbomb
Offline

Here you go: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/119 … -win32.zip

It saves the backup with the current date and time. You can also disable the backups in the prefs menu. Auto save is a bit trickier but it will be there one day.

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

Hmm yeah there's definitely a problem in the disk access routine. I'd say about half the crashes I get are right before/after or during a save. The addition of a disk access call when you check the song statistics is perhaps not the way to go either. For example, if you click on song statistics and select 'no' to the overwrite box, it crashes just about 100% of the time.

The other half of the crashes I get are related to multitasking and mini/maximizing the window. A lot of times the screen goes entirely black if you alt-tab  in and out of the application. The only way to get the graphics back is to minimize and maximize the window a few times....which often makes it crash rather than fix the problem.

yoyz2k
Offline
france

Hey Noobstar, you should understand that the work to write a tracker is really long and sometime fix all bugs is not the correct way to go to continue the long way.
It is like writing a song, sometime for month you will write poor song which sound poor.
But you should never say more than one or two times it smell like shit.
Developer are not smart everyday and it's not easy.
You use this soft and you reply to this forum so to be honest you should care about guy like him which write something in the hope that some guy on the Internet will really enjoy it.

I'm sure you like this soft, so take care of this guy.
I may be wrong but I think you are a bit too hard.

Thanks

n00bstar
Offline
Montreal, Canada

You are not wrong, I'm a rude asshole and anybody who ever spoke to me for more than ten minutes knows that. Kometbomb knows that deep down I love him and every little byte of his crashy code. I am not a nice person under the best circumstances, and yesterday I lost about a month of work in a single crash so...yknow smile

Kometbomb and me have a love/hate relationship that has worked pretty well for the last three years. I complain, he ignores. I suggest, he ignores. He implements, I complain. He fixes, I ignore. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND TRUE LOVE MAN. tongue

I know I have no claim over Klystrack, but I sometimes feels like it's my baby too...and I want it to grow into a fine young lady.