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Jelly Stone park, MD USA
m00dawg wrote:

Maybe it was pulsar? I dunno some NES program I ran into had trouble due to using an odd mapper. That said, your version of VegaPlay (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11322) /does/ indeed work with PowerPak. I used your example .NES and I noticed some songs would cause the NES to freeze. I'm guessing it's because the NSF didn't actually have song data there or something?

I don't have a 6502/NES toolchain setup yet so that's next on my list, at which point I can do additional tests. But apart from the freezing issue, yeah it worked like a champ! I'm guessing any sync additions you plan on adding should work fine too, but of course if you add them, let me know and I can easily test them on my PowerPak.

Could be Pulsar, it uses SXROM which is an extremely rare mapper ( only used in one Famicom title)

Good to hear the mod does work on your HW smile Yea some of the NSFs I grabbed are 'weird'. I think they use a different tool chain/tracker and stomp on some of the ram I'm using. FamiTracker NSFs work fine so not too motivated to find a fix for every driver out there. VegaPlay has the same issues outlined in the release notes.

The tool chain is a breeze, the release package will have a copy of ASM6, the compiler. No install, just configure the user config file and run the .BAT
Yogi

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Texas

Cool beans! I noticed the DropBox link is really just for the compo stuff you mentioned on NESdev? Guessing you're still working on the code and haven't released it yet? smile No rush if so, but when you do, I'd be happy to test it out!

In the interim, I may give FamiSlayer a go, but man not having to do any removing of headers and things is really tantalizing! So looking very much forward to seeing what you come up with, for both that as well as sync.

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA
m00dawg wrote:

Cool beans! I noticed the DropBox link is really just for the compo stuff you mentioned on NESdev? Guessing you're still working on the code and haven't released it yet? smile No rush if so, but when you do, I'd be happy to test it out!

In the interim, I may give FamiSlayer a go, but man not having to do any removing of headers and things is really tantalizing! So looking very much forward to seeing what you come up with, for both that as well as sync.

So let me ask for your opinion
Do you feel it is easier to manage individual NSF as separate .NES files on a PowerPak, or have a multi NSF .NES?
I was thinking that a multi cart would be useful for a Flash cart based musician, but there are prob way more with PowerPaks then Flash carts, so after I wrap up the current build I could update the basic FamiSlayer to simplify it.
yogi

Last edited by yogi (Jul 1, 2014 6:39 pm)

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Texas

We do live shows so I tend to be in favor of what requires less work. What I saw of VegaPlay was pretty well in line with what I would need I think. I'd probably do a mix of having sub-songs on an NSF and multiple NSFs.

Better might be kind of relative. My band-mate likes the idea of physically changing out cartridges to make it look neat during a live show smile Not sure how that relates to flash carts save for saying if all our music won't fit on one, we'd have to switch them out. In actuality, that's not a big deal - we'd just coordinate our breaks so we switch carts then.

So I guess for me it doesn't matter much. Curious - what flash cart do you use? And, on that note, I noticed RetroUSB no longer carries plastic cases or their MMC board. I was kinda bummed out by that. Are these found elsewhere?

My gut feeling is the same as yours - that PowerPaks likely outnumber flash carts and other solutions. For us? We could easily do either, though.

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA
m00dawg wrote:

We do live shows so I tend to be in favor of what requires less work. What I saw of VegaPlay was pretty well in line with what I would need I think. I'd probably do a mix of having sub-songs on an NSF and multiple NSFs.

Better might be kind of relative. My band-mate likes the idea of physically changing out cartridges to make it look neat during a live show smile Not sure how that relates to flash carts save for saying if all our music won't fit on one, we'd have to switch them out. In actuality, that's not a big deal - we'd just coordinate our breaks so we switch carts then.

Well, not having a PowerPak it's hard for me to judge how hard or easy switching from song to song is.
With my mod you could have 7 - 32K NSFs in one file, so less cart switching IF you use carts smile With a PP it's still button presses but if your band changes up your set, might be better to have NSFs separate (?)
Will add my changes back into FamiSlayer anyways at some point, choice is alway good smile

m00dawg wrote:

So I guess for me it doesn't matter much. Curious - what flash cart do you use? And, on that note, I noticed RetroUSB no longer carries plastic cases or their MMC board. I was kinda bummed out by that. Are these found elsewhere?

My gut feeling is the same as yours - that PowerPaks likely outnumber flash carts and other solutions. For us? We could easily do either, though.

A guy over @ NESDEV.com, INL, is producing Flash carts and a flashing system for 'Cart Edge' re-flashing ( so much better then pulling chips )
His Store:
http://www.infiniteneslives.com/products.php
He is also working on a molds for cart cases, may be this summer (?)
I have a couple of SXROM carts, with PR8 and Pulsar and just got a SNROM for this dev stuff.
yogi

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Texas

On the PowerPak, switching ROMs requires a power-cycle (reset won't do it) but otherwise it's easy to do. That said, I would probably setup ROMs on the PP just like I would a flash cart - namely try to fit as many on a ROM as I could, keeping with song orders and things. An added benefit is emulation of extra sound chips (a shame those chips can't be had more easily hmm).

So I guess to answer your question, on the PP the workflow doesn't really have to change all that much compared to a flash cart.

Having said all that, damn the stuff at Infinite Nes Lives is awesome! Dude even provides the Sunsoft 5B, although while I thought Famitracker implemented it, it looks like that hasn't been done yet. Still that's very cool!

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA
m00dawg wrote:

On the PowerPak, switching ROMs requires a power-cycle (reset won't do it) but otherwise it's easy to do. That said, I would probably setup ROMs on the PP just like I would a flash cart - namely try to fit as many on a ROM as I could, keeping with song orders and things. An added benefit is emulation of extra sound chips (a shame those chips can't be had more easily hmm).

So I guess to answer your question, on the PP the workflow doesn't really have to change all that much compared to a flash cart.

OK

m00dawg wrote:

Having said all that, damn the stuff at Infinite Nes Lives is awesome! Dude even provides the Sunsoft 5B, although while I thought Famitracker implemented it, it looks like that hasn't been done yet. Still that's very cool!

Oh Yea, I've been eyeing the SunSoft cart for awhile, but kind of waiting till FamiTracker finally support's it ( I think most of the drivers and code are already in place). He's also been working on a Hardware NSF mapper cart (They used it for the 2A03 Puritans Album just released). not sure of all the details, but would allow loading of bank switching NSF. smile
yogi

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Texas

Well damn that all sounds nifty! There was user MidiBox project where the dude made a AY-3-8910 synth so that may exist as an option in the interim. But yeah if 5B is attainable that would be a much more integrated solution.

For now, though, just being able to sync the NES would be, in it of itself, quite fantastic, sound chips aside.

As an aside, really bummed to see RetroUSB doesn't carry much stuff now. E-mailed him to see if that's just temporary, but haven't heard back yet.

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA
m00dawg wrote:

Well damn that all sounds nifty! There was user MidiBox project where the dude made a AY-3-8910 synth so that may exist as an option in the interim. But yeah if 5B is attainable that would be a much more integrated solution.

I got a MB AY almost done, waiting on parts for a CS (Too many projects!!!)

m00dawg wrote:

For now, though, just being able to sync the NES would be, in it of itself, quite fantastic, sound chips aside.

As an aside, really bummed to see RetroUSB doesn't carry much stuff now. E-mailed him to see if that's just temporary, but haven't heard back yet.

Yea, syncing the NES seemed like the highest priority for me atm.
About RetroUSB, BunnyBoy had stuff listed as "out of stock", but about 6 mos ago dropped them from the site ?!?! Bummed too.
yogi

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Texas

Oooh I'm a tad envious of your MB AY. That's on my list, although, yep, not the highest priority for me either.

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Texas

Curious - the CD4021 is new to me, having been used to 74HC165's (largely via MidiBox, surprise surprise). It looks like there isn't much different apart from wiring and, if I read correctly, some clock handling. If I opted to use a shift-register to emulate a controller, I'd definitely use a CD4021, but I was curious as to more of the differences. Anyone know?

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA

As far as I can tell Pinout and Max operating Voltage range seems to be the major difference, but Functionally they are the same. And of course the 'HC165 is a newer chip and there is the general family differences between 74HC and CMOS.
  For these kinds of designs, if you are recycling a GamePad's cable, might as well recycle the chip also.
yogi

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Texas

Oh yeah that's a good point...I hadn't though of just recycling the cable. The CD4021 works and I've even seen it used for Arduino projects, though I see the 165's waaay more. I know I have a few lying around which prompted the thought, though ultimately it doesn't matter (not like it's expensive and can be re-used from a controller, as you pointed out). I should up one of the newly manufactured controllers I have. Curious if they did anything different than the standard controller (I doubt it since everything else appears exactly the same).

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA

You know, I have been kicking around the whole issue of 'the cable'. Finding a source of NES cables is like impossible, so that leaves recycling old (new ?) controllers or extension cables.  I had noticed at INL's site he has CD4021 pulls from his USB mods so he may have cables also ( will have to ask him).

But then I was thinking of a internal mod with just a ribbon cable to the port 2 motherboard header. Downside is you can't move the interface to another NES and may interfere/disable a GamePad on port 2. For my case atm, I have a cable setup for prototyping but once it's done, I think I'll do a internal install. Would also cut down on extra gear, like in your case.

On a side note about the cable, you can't solder the wires in the (original) cable, so you have to use crimp connectors. They used a copper foil/nylon conductor, like a lot of headphone cables do. Don't know about  after market GamePads.
Just a thought
Yogi

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Texas

I was thinking something similar actually. I already have an op-amp based circuit I built for better audio output so I already have a panel on the back. If the sync solution was small enough, could just bust out a MIDI connector on the back and call it done.

That sucks about needing to crimp though...bleh...crimp terminals and some glue solves that problem though I guess.

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA
m00dawg wrote:

I was thinking something similar actually. I already have an op-amp based circuit I built for better audio output so I already have a panel on the back. If the sync solution was small enough, could just bust out a MIDI connector on the back and call it done.

That sucks about needing to crimp though...bleh...crimp terminals and some glue solves that problem though I guess.

Newer cables may be different, don't know. But size wise we'er talking about a dip 8, a dip 16 and a dip 18, xtal and a few caps and resistors; on a proto about 1.5 x  2.5" May be a little bigger on a PCB.
I built the V1 on a Dontronic's SimmStick 18pin PIC board I had on hand, it's 2x3.5" but wastes some space. And I did a Midi thru with a 74HC00,  could just have the PIC echo any in coming byte for Midi Thru and loose the 'HC00.
Should fit in a NES, there is so much space in that case!
yogi