I dont like punk. I like big room or hardstyle! The only punk I like is cyberpunk.

clubcult wrote:
e.s.c. wrote:

i think there's very little rebellion or anti-consumerism in the scene now, if there ever really was (individual artists in some cases, but never wide-spread from what i saw).. most of the scene has nothing at all to do with punk, at least from my perspective (that of someone who was in the punk scene for maybe 6-8 years starting in the mid-90s)

mh, sure, you can not generalize this because everyone has a different motivation starting with chipmusic.
But listen to these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRCbt3f … e&t=51

...and what about this ?

(a) i said individual artist exceptions exist (like bit shifter being influenced a little more towards the pop punk end of the spectrum or let's disinfect, awkward terrible, etc) hell, i used to help run datathrash, a label that specialized in punk and metal influenced stuff mostly & (b) that film was made ~10 years ago, there's a lot in it that even the people you hear saying it would no longer necessarily agree with... i think the diy aspect was much bigger earlier on, but since there are now multiple vendors who will sell you game boys with any kind of mod you want pre-installed that seems to have faded significantly (at least on the tech end)... in a way, i'd say it's even got a higher barrier of entry at this point than other forms of electronic music at this point, since pretty much everyone already has a laptop and pirated versions of DAWs and VSTs are everywhere where in most cases people getting into chip seem to want to work on the original hardware... the main aspect of the punk scene (at least the early punk scene) that i find pretty lacking in chip at this point was the "fuck preconceptions, i'll make whatever i think sounds good" attitude.. the majority of people getting involved these days tend to make some form of EDM, techno, house or other more traditional forms of dance genres, far fewer just make whatever the hell they want and ignore genre limitations entirely

I think some of the punk ethos extends into chipmusic. Especially with live events. It's very DIY-centric like punk has always been. Maybe it's not so DIY on the hardware end these days, but it's not like the punks are out there building their own amps and guitars.

Worlds collide though. The last couple punk bands I've seen/played with had chip dudes. Didn't get to meet the chip guy playing sax for a punk band unfortunately. I was really really bummed to not hear punk sax solo sad

e.s.c. wrote:

in a way, i'd say it's even got a higher barrier of entry at this point than other forms of electronic music at this point, since pretty much everyone already has a laptop and pirated versions of DAWs and VSTs are everywhere where in most cases people getting into chip seem to want to work on the original hardware

True, but the barrier to entry for chip is about $50. Cheaper than folk music, and punk I'd say. I think the simplicity of the music also lowers barrier to entry. Punk wasn't mostly about being cheap. It would be cheaper to buy an acoustic and write folk music (folk again?). It's that it was aggressively simple.

e.s.c. wrote:

i think the diy aspect was much bigger earlier on, but since there are now multiple vendors who will sell you game boys with any kind of mod you want pre-installed that seems to have faded significantly

Yes there used to be more of that before gameboy became the default. Still I'm pretty sure even gameboy music qualifies as anti consumerist, by repurposing old tech that was not being used at all. Also remember that there is a whole group of people out there who are making these "cottage industry" products. It's much more common to see people on this forum talking about wiring an old keyboard, or writing software, than it is on like, a Dubstep forum.

Wikipedia wrote:

In the punk subculture, the DIY ethic is tied to punk ideology and anticonsumerism. It espouses the rejection of consumer culture, using existing systems or existing processes that would foster dependence on established societal structures. According to the punk aesthetic, one can express oneself and produce moving and serious works with limited means.

I think chip music qualifies by this definition.

e.s.c. wrote:

the main aspect of the punk scene (at least the early punk scene) that i find pretty lacking in chip at this point was the "fuck preconceptions, i'll make whatever i think sounds good" attitude

All I will say is, lack of originality isn't just a problem in chipmusic. It happened to punk almost instantly. It happens to everything.

Also read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock#Precursors

I didn't expect such a feedback, that's awesome. It's really interesting to see how different everyones attitude is towards this subject.

Maybe another aspect that makes it seem to have a punk-appeal is that both forms of music tend to have some kind of soundlimitation.
What's different is that Chipmusicians always wanted to push their instruments as far as possible but in punk they kind of seem to set with what they have (E-Guitar, simple chord progression etc.... ).

I think the DIY-Aspect is still deeply rooted in the scene. In my case, I modded my own gameboy instead of buying a finished product from an online retailer because I had the ambition and the interest to make this gameboy my own unique instrument.  Im seriously interested in how many people really buy finished products from retailers? To me it feels like it kind of defeats the purpose. Maybe it has something to do with authenticity?

I also read and saw that people in the audience are often pogo-ing. Isn't that some kind of punk-thing, too? Or doesn't it happen so often?

Last edited by clubcult (November 23, 2016 2:39 pm)

Inevitably, all things are the same thing. No matter what source of noise you have, you are still confined to the idea of the "music" construct. The rules laid out by chemistry, physics, and math. All of the other stuff is decoration. Fashion,which is the funniest (I can tell from your uniform that you are a nonconformist.) Attitude (fashion for personalities? ) and tonality, riff types (arps, two handed tapping guitars, power chords...) of music genres are merely things that define an idea in the mass mind.   If you're trying to have a social message with your music and words, then that is punk no matter what the music is. Folk is way more punk than most punk rock in that aspect.

Originality only happens once. Then anyone can do it.

Last edited by oscillating (November 23, 2016 3:57 pm)

^

this

Yea but that is boring. Music isn't physics the minute it becomes perceived by human emotions as arts. So why not let the nomenclature and cultural experiences of our times dictate how we view it.

Genres are a shared language we use to discuss the thing.

clubcult wrote:

I also read and saw that people in the audience are often pogo-ing. Isn't that some kind of punk-thing, too? Or doesn't it happen so often?

People will mosh to R.E.M so I wouldn't really use that as much of a signifier.

I don't mean to discount the human listener. Without us there is no point to music. I don't mean it to be only math. It is that, but the desired end result is to make a brain squirt pshychoactive chemicals all over the place. Math actually helps one do that. Let's all make psychoactive brain chemicals squirt all over the place. Humans have a range of emotions. Music has a range of  sounds that make resonant frequencies that make brains squirt different chemicals that make us resonate with emotion, memory,  and fantasy. Punk is one aspect of it. All experiences share this.

Last edited by oscillating (November 23, 2016 3:54 pm)

i wouldn't say punk changed into a monolithic genre almost instantly... if you start with the proto-punk of the stooges back in the early 70s, it had a solid decade where it was diverse enough to include Suicide, Blondie, Television, Wire, The Ramones, Devo, Minor Threat, etc... i think the biggest force towards making punk a narrower genre was Mclaren and his version of punk clothing style and punk music.. sure , by the mid 80s it had narrowed significantly but then it started expanding out again thankfully... as far as the diy thing, yeah sure people still mod their own gear but it's often from pre-made kits.. the earliest lighting mods done by Der Warst were true diy (used part of a cd jewel case to diffuse the single led, no pre-made foil, just cut a piece of aluminum foil and try not to short the board in the process).. i have one he did that's still my preferred dmg a decade later, it confuses the hell out of most people who've seen me use it, it looks nothing like what they're used to.. i couldn't really call the current way things are anti-consumerist at all given how many successful vendors exist at this point.. back in 2007, there was only one seller of gb flash carts in the US (Low-Gain, then going by LameBoy) and we only had the 32MB EMS carts which required a parallel port flashing device... it was straight-up harder to get lsdj on a cart that could run on a DMG back then (a bunch of the chicago area people got their first carts from me, since i'd do 4-5 cart orders and had the flasher, then sell at cost or trade for shit i wanted) and DMGs were $5-10, even for play it loud ones.. it may still seems anti-consumerist to some, but compared to a decade ago it's not even close...

breakphase wrote:

I think I can point out a few commonalities between chip music and punk.

They are both DIY. Both genres encourage listeners to become makers, because they are both pretty simple forms of music. Pixel art has the same vibe. Every little kid loves doing pixel art. Punk rock started as rebellion against fancy pretentious music. Chiptune has often been a rebellion against polished over-produced laptop music. They are both very participatory genres. Chiptunes artists will often distribute the actual SOURCE files as a musical release. This encourages others to learn and get involved.

Chip tunes are only as simple as the particular composer. Actually, chiptune production takes a lot of technique and skill. It gets rather complex at times, to a degree that punk music would rarely ever touch (if at all).

There is nothing simple about trying to squeeze Mozart out of a C64. People who can pull that off have some real talent.

Also, I thought chiptune music has often been a nostalgic sound preference. I like to give away source files to people because I like them, or think it will benefit them in some way. Not because of rebellion. Any one starting off chiptune music for rebellion is likely missing the whole point altogether.

marcb0t wrote:

Any one starting off chiptune music for rebellion is likely missing the whole point altogether.

Well it depends on what's being rebelled against.

.

Last edited by chunter (November 24, 2016 1:45 am)

When you mention chiptune punk, my first thought is 10,000 Free Men and their Families. There was a time when there was a European aesthetic of being similar to dance music (tarnce and tracne) and an American and Australian aesthetic of making short pop songs with 14 songs in a 25 minute set.

This white guy who looked like a mop with plastic glasses had everybody wanting to make brostep and after a while, even Anamanaguchi didn't want to make their power pop punk anymore.

If you want to bring punk to chipmusic anyone can. It's more a matter of, what does punk mean today? There were a lot of people in my timeline looking forward to a new era of politically charged anger music a few weeks ago, and it had me listening to Midnight Oil and XTC again. If you want to be the one who brings that back, you certainly have my support.

Last edited by chunter (November 24, 2016 1:48 am)

Bit Shifter wrote:
marcb0t wrote:

Any one starting off chiptune music for rebellion is likely missing the whole point altogether.

Well it depends on what's being rebelled against.