ChipMusic.org - What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-05-22T23:47:55Z

NES freezing was a huge problem for Bit Brigade, a VGM project I play guitar in, over the weekend. We score NES games in real-time as our uber-gamer buddy beats them via a projected top-loading NES. He has, and usually uses with no freezing problems in six years, carts for our three main games that he regularly cleans. Recently, however, (the awesome) Ryan8Bit made us some custom sfx-only roms for PowerPak use that allow us to play the music for the games while the sound effects roll through the PA. About halfway through Ninja Gaiden, the PowerPak froze.

I have been having other problems with the PowerPak recently as well, but the exhaustive details there are probably for another thread. Even the top-loader obviously isn't foolproof, but Noah has never had any problems with it before and he actually just loaded up his genuine NG cart, sped through the game up to the point where the PP froze, and the game was completed with no problems.

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-19T12:55:05Z

invaderbacca wrote:

Notendo did this and it works fine, but it also being notendo

i believe x|k aswell, he has quite otaku NES's

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-19T11:46:04Z

yes the old blinky light of death is mostly related to the lockout chip - I've brought lots of pals NES's back to life by sorting out the lockout chip - http://nesdev.parodius.com/nlockout.txt its not even necessary to tie pin 4 to 0v either...

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T17:34:11Z

if you cut the lock out it makes life alot better too. did that and since then no problems.

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T17:13:55Z

arfink wrote:

So, are your updates just feature creep then?

It takes me a long time to write those bugs.

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T15:42:13Z

putting it on a towel might help actually. I have the majority of my pins soldered with stuff going everywhere. Just DONT solder the game in. Notendo did this and it works fine, but it also being notendo and doing this for more then 10 years I would still not do this. Make sure the power adapter is the one FROM NINTENDO, dont sub it out, its just one plug. I've encountered a TON of weird things during my bending projects but first I always....
1) get a new 72 pin (even if when you got it they said 'NEW 72 PIN!!@#!@' just get a new one its 5 bucks)
2) clean every contact with an eraser and some basic contact cleaner (not going to say what solution to use since everyone has changing opinions on that)
3) Like Partytimehexalent said, leave it running for a while.

P.S. DON'T use the powerpak if anything is going to be getting bent or whatever on the board it WILL kill the powerpak

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T15:35:58Z

TmTgr wrote:

Saskrotch wrote:
what the fuck is that
Taking care with your soldering I'd imagine.

thanks, that's the part i was asking about

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T15:21:33Z

So, are your updates just feature creep then?

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T15:13:21Z

arfink wrote:

Of course, NTRQ, Pulsar, and PR8 are also not 100% free of bugs

WHAT!?

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T15:03:13Z

I'd seriously suggest against soldering your cartridge into the NES. It just doesn't make sense to do, and will likely not increase your NES's reliability if it's only having the occasional issue. Point to point soldered connections are always more problematic in the long run, and when it does wind up breaking (and with wires lap-soldered onto 72 x 2 pads, it WILL happen, no matter how clean you make it) you will be very very upset when you have to debug the thing. Believe me when I say this: I did this one time, though with a Game Genie, not a Power Pak. And never again. It was a huge mess, and I'm quite a skilled solder-er.

Bus errors are the number one cause of freezes, and they can be caused by two things: a faulty connection on the 72-pin connector but also by code problems. If you have a tight new 72 pin connector and clean cartridge contacts and are still getting occasional lockups when the unit isn't being bumped then it's possible the lockups are being caused by timing issues on the bus, which can be caused by a wide array of things. The Powerpak is not bulletproof, sometimes the mapper simulations are off by just enough that code which is especially picky may slip up. Of course, NTRQ, Pulsar, and PR8 are also not 100% free of bugs, which I'm sure Neil will agree with. So don't rule those possibilities out.

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T13:05:10Z

Saskrotch wrote:

jmz wrote:
~*~*~*~careful soldering~*~*~*~ ...
what the fuck is that

Taking care with your soldering I'd imagine.

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T12:46:22Z

jmz wrote:

~*~*~*~careful soldering~*~*~*~ ...

what the fuck is that

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-15T10:41:27Z

This is probably the least helpful, non-technical advice, but I find that doing something like resting the NES on top of a folded-up t-shirt or something like that can go a long way in ensuring that your NES doesn't freeze if vibrations from a PA, kick drum, etc, are the cause. But of course this only pertains to live use at shows.

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-02T18:42:43Z

Interesting, thanks! Though our set up is a little weird because we're actually supplying the 5V the NES needs directly from a PSone screen. The freezing happens so so so so so so infrequently, that I don't think it's a power issue. It's just a rare problem that I'd prefer to never happen again, hence soldering the cart directly in ~_~

Re: What is it exactly that makes an NES freeze?

2011-03-02T18:35:34Z

On a related note, I would check to be sure that you're using a quality AC adapter. I have always had better luck with the first-party adapters, but even those can go bad. I have done quite a bit of testing with various first- and third-party AC adapters for NES and SNES. Poor or aging adapters can cause your machine to reset sporadically--not fun in the middle of a game or a set! They can also have odd effects on the image quality. In putting together a gig bag, I always check the adapter itself to make sure there aren't any loose parts. I may also test an adapter by letting the NES run for about 30 minutes. Finally, I make sure to quarantine or dispose of any adapters that aren't working properly. Hope this helps!