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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[ChipMusic.org - Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="https://chipmusic.org:80/forums/feed/atom/topic/4649/"/>
	<updated>2011-07-12T11:11:15Z</updated>
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	<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/4649/expected-features-for-a-beginnerlevel-synthesiser/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/73117/#p73117"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ll get on with doing that <img src="https://chipmusic.org/forums/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" /></p><p>Oh, and the function generator I&#039;m planning on using is the ICL8038 - <a href="http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn2864.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn2864.pdf</a></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[TraceKaiser]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/TraceKaiser</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-12T11:11:15Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/73117/#p73117</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/73110/#p73110"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>devblog</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[ant1]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/ant1</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-12T09:56:40Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/73110/#p73110</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/73089/#p73089"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>got to tell ya. i am looking forward to following this. you should make a blog page for the project to doc the progress. i would love to follow along.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[wedanced]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/wedanced</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-12T06:27:45Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/73089/#p73089</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72982/#p72982"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply Nitro!</p><p>What I&#039;m looking at using for the oscillator is a function generator chip - I can&#039;t for the life of me remember the name, it certainly has a 3 in it though! The advantage of it is that it produces square, sine and triangle simultaneously, and all at the same frequency. I can put a variable resistor on each output (well, it will probably be more complex to avoid overloading the filter etc but yknow) and you can combine waveforms thusly. </p><p>I was looking at, for the sequencer, having a PIC (most likely a GENIE20 as my school uses a lot of their stuff and I already have experience with the programming software) reading input voltages (as in, the voltage for each note played). It would store up to 16 of these - a skip step button and end button would also be included - and play them back when a pulse is recieved on another leg of the chip. I&#039;ll most likely use a 555 astable to trigger this, but it also means you can have a sync input like the Korg Monotribe and trigger it from a click track. It would then output the voltages in binary, to a digital to analogue converter, which would go back to the oscillator and give it the appropriate voltage, meaning I get the right notes. <br />It&#039;s low tech, I know, but that&#039;s part of the point of it. </p><p>Also, I&#039;m gonna have the LFO sync-able to the sequencer. And hopefully have the LFO trigger the envelope too? I&#039;m not sure. I found an ADSR schematic which uses a 555 timer which I may well be using, but until I get a chance to breadboards stuff I&#039;m not too au fait on how it works. </p><p>And I&#039;m hitting a bit of a wall in terms of finding a decent explaination of building a LPF - a diode ladder seems a good choice, but I&#039;m not too sure where to go with it or what to do! </p><p>Oh also I&#039;m planning on using the same function generator for the LFO, so you can select it&#039;s waveform too <img src="https://chipmusic.org/forums/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[TraceKaiser]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/TraceKaiser</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-11T17:11:31Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72982/#p72982</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72961/#p72961"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>TraceKaiser wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;m not too sure how I could interface an external controller other than via MIDI - and I have no clue how I could implement that.</p></blockquote></div><p>Gate+CV (control voltage)! This is what an analog synth would be using internally, only that now it&#039;s coming from the outside through a couple of jacks. Many old synths will provide it.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[nitro2k01]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/nitro2k01</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-11T15:31:25Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72961/#p72961</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72959/#p72959"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>My answer repeated as a list-</p><p>1 osc<br />1 filter<br />1 amp<br />1 envelope<br />1 lfo<br />1 stylus controller<br />1 modulation controller (light, pressure, wheel, whatever)<br />Banana plug/jacks to connect pitch and mod CVs (audio signal should be hardwired for simplicity)<br />Mix input for outside source so it goes through the filter</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[chunter]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/chunter</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-11T15:29:06Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72959/#p72959</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72956/#p72956"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>My £0.02:</p><p>Oscillator: You can either go analog, or use a microcontroller like an Arduino for the intelligence + the oscillator.</p><p>If you go digital, you can still do the waveforms you want, but possibly with NES/chip style bit reduction for the saw/triangle. What you want to do is probably to use a passive resistor ladder DAC, which allows you to oscillators with a few bits (as in binary bits of data) with only some microcontroller outputs and a few resistors. You will still likely want to use a &#039;duino if you&#039;re looking to implement MIDI. And the digital method has the added advantage of being in tune at all times without trimming.</p><p>If you go analog, I recommend a design built around the XR2206, like a simplified version of the <a href="http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_Henry/Pages/XR-VCO.html" target="_blank">XR-VCO</a> by Thomas Henry. It can produce sine and/or triangle in its basic configuration. I recommend just going for triangle as sine always be approximated by using a low filter setting, but otherwise you can add a switch to choose between the two. But the interesting part is the skew function. It flips half of the waveform so you first get a triangle /\/\/\ which morphs into something like /-/-/- at medium settings and finally ////// at the highest setting.</p><p>As for controlling the synth, you basically have two options if you want to keep it analog and simple. Carbon strip or a resistor voltage divider ladder with a button for each note. Carbon strip is what the Gakken syntesizer is using for example, but I&#039;m not sure whether this can be achieved by on a DIY level. The voltage divider ladder works like this: you have a bunch of resistors in series. One end is connected to a positive reference voltage and the other end to ground. In each step you&#039;re going to have a consecutively higher voltage. Each point is connected to a switch which in turn is connected to the voltage control input. Simple example:<br /></p><div class="codebox"><pre><code>       ___          ___          ___          ___          ___         
+5V - |___| - o -  |___| - o -  |___| - o -  |___| - o -  |___| - Ground
              | 4 V        | 3 V        | 2 V        | 1 V</code></pre></div><p>That way you get a number of evenly spaced voltage reference points that can be used as control voltages. This system fails as soon as you press two keys simultaneously, but hey you can&#039;t get everything...</p><p>A creative way to this approach is to use a printed circuit board where you use copper shapes as keys and play the thing with a &quot;pen&quot; attached with a wire. This is the approach <a href="http://8bitklubben.dk/project/CFO/" target="_blank">Cheap, Fat and Open</a> is using, even though it&#039;s using a different wiring of the electronics since it&#039;s a digital synth. </p><p>A nice trick you can use to almost detune the oscillator is a sawtooth phase shifter. There&#039;s a schematic for a really simple one here: <a href="http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/" target="_blank">http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/</a> I think that one flipped the + and - of one of the opamps, however. <br />Here&#039;s a demonstration of this effect unit in my modular homebuilt modular system, with an oscilloscope view and annotations explaining what I&#039;m twiddling with. Vhen modulated with an LFO, it fattens up the sound a bit compared to a simple sawtooth.<br /><div class="embed_video"><iframe width="560" height="340" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3jlsDhgQJOM" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe></div></p><p>As for a sequencer, what are you hoping it will control? Pitch? Other parameters? Make sure this isn&#039;t shooting over the target and that it will actually be useful.</p><p>And then there&#039;s the envelope, VCA, filter and LFO design aspects. I don&#039;t really have time to write more about this right now, and I also have less useful advice on those parts of the synth. But before I conclude, let me warn you of feature creep, i.e. adding too much shit and not being able to finish the synth, especially if you&#039;re on a deadline, which you probably are since it&#039;s a course. With complexity, the number of things that can go wrong increases exponentially. I&#039;m of the opinion that having to debug your stuff is the best, if not the only way to gain practical knowledge. However, respect deadlines and know your limits.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[nitro2k01]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/nitro2k01</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-11T15:27:00Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72956/#p72956</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72922/#p72922"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not too sure how I could interface an external controller other than via MIDI - and I have no clue how I could implement that. I can&#039;t make it too complex, for obvious reasons. Making it as simply a module, without any kind of controller, would be totally counter-intuitive to what I want to achieve, so the controller is whatever I can make, really.</p><p>Nothing is set yet, so whatever I can actually utilise is will what I make - most likely a stylophone style keyboard and that&#039;s by far the simplest to do, and will let me have a wider range of notes in a smaller amount of space. If it&#039;s for a newbie, it can&#039;t be MASSIVE, so it&#039;s something I need to take into consideration</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[TraceKaiser]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/TraceKaiser</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-11T13:53:55Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72922/#p72922</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72791/#p72791"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I think the controller is the most important thing, and what can kill beginner synths (or other instruments): monotron, stylophone, etc. I would prefer the option of being able to plug in my own controller, like the mebleep or shruthi-1.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[melkor]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/melkor</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-10T12:33:28Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72791/#p72791</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72764/#p72764"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>808!</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[mk]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/mk</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-10T03:14:03Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72764/#p72764</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72756/#p72756"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Ooh yeah, something with an LDR sounds great, can&#039;t believe I hadn&#039;t thought of that before!</p><p>By detune I mean that often with synths with more than one oscillator, you can tune them separately (effectively play harmonies on a mono synth). Despite the fact my synth produces three different waveforms simultaneously - almost like it has 3 oscillators - you can&#039;t tune them independently. </p><p>Hmm, I&#039;m not too sure on how I&#039;d make the filter patch in-able to - I think I&#039;d have to put it after the VCA with the envelope, but I&#039;d need to make sure there is no feedback and protect the filter from getting overloaded. </p><p>Really, the most complex part is going to be the sequencer, as it&#039;s gonna be digital and I&#039;ve gotta program it and figure out which digital to analogue converter I need to use and all this crazy stuff - the rest of the synth is the more simple part <img src="https://chipmusic.org/forums/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" /></p><p>BUT ANYWAY <br />What I really need for my research is for you guys to list features. Like, the features you think a beginner level synth should have - not what it would be nice to have, but what you would expect one to have. </p><p>So you&#039;d say like:<br />2 oscillators<br />LFO<br />Low pass filter<br />Arpeggiator</p><p>Etc etc etc </p><p>If you can do that, that&#039;s what I need!<br />Though I&#039;m certainly happy to discuss my project too <img src="https://chipmusic.org/forums/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[TraceKaiser]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/TraceKaiser</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-10T00:02:31Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72756/#p72756</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72745/#p72745"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I suggest keeping your project simple so that you don&#039;t bite off more than you can chew. A 1-osc synth is okay if it can be versatile, some examples from history are Roland SH-1000 and Arp Soloist series.</p><p>Borrowing the &quot;keyboard&quot; of a stylophone is okay, but see if you can create a modulation source with a light sensor or some other control for the non-stylus hand.</p><p>You say you don&#039;t want detune, but you&#039;ll have it anyway- you have to put the instrument in tune somehow, right? <img src="https://chipmusic.org/forums/img/smilies/wink.png" width="15" height="15" alt="wink" /></p><p>If you want the instrument to stay versatile, have the modulation sources connect with banana plugs and borrow monotron&#039;s input to the filter action. Anything more (to me) is a bit beyond a school project. Good luck!</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[chunter]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/chunter</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-09T21:07:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72745/#p72745</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72721/#p72721"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#039;s most likely going to have a stylophone-style interface, simply because it would be far more practical for me to make than anything else. </p><p>The chip I&#039;m using for an oscillator produces all three waveforms at once, so it SORT OF has three oscillators, though you can&#039;t detune them from one another. But you will be able to mix between square, sine and triangle to your heart&#039;s content!</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[TraceKaiser]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/TraceKaiser</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-09T10:02:08Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72721/#p72721</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72715/#p72715"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>ADSR is always good. are you building this to be keyboard controlled or step sequencer or maybe ribbon (like the monotron)? I had a similar idea for a very basic synth. nothing fancy but good enough to sample from. also different wave forms. dual oscillator. I am getting greedy....</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[wedanced]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/wedanced</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-09T09:29:42Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72715/#p72715</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Expected features for a beginner-level synthesiser]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72624/#p72624"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, I was gonna have the LFO sync-able with the step sequencer!</p><p>Also, could you like, post lists of basic features? Like LFO, then say maybe extra bits to be able to do with it? I need to justify every feature I put in this, sooo... :3</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[TraceKaiser]]></name>
				<uri>https://chipmusic.org/TraceKaiser</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2011-07-08T15:29:48Z</updated>
			<id>https://chipmusic.org/forums/post/72624/#p72624</id>
		</entry>
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