ChipMusic.org - Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2014-02-14T18:09:30Z

ne7 wrote:

Hey Yogi,
blimey only just noticed your comments: just a quick note, the confusion is caused as the pinouts on my diagram mean you can use a a 27c040 (512k) chip /o\ sorry about any confusion there - the pinout for 27c010 (128k) / 27c020 (256k) have a slightly different assignment for pin 31... On a 27c040 pin 31 is A18 y'see... v. odd that pin 1 would be complaining although tbh best practice is def to tie any floating pins - didn't think that would cause any issue tho - at least it does not on the Famicom Well done for fiddling and getting it working on the NES
I'll try and change the guide to reflect that soon! ^

Hi there ne7! Thanks again for your guides, they are very helpful to me. Prior to your posts, I've only messed with Atari stuff and MCU projects. So all things Nintendo are quite new to me and your guides have been a great help introducing me to 'MMC land'
As to pin1, I've seen some datasheets that do advise Vpp tied to Vcc but that doesn't necessarily mean that all manufactures would require it. So I would guess some eprom may not have a prob with it floating.
With pin 31 it's a little different, being /PGM on the '010 and '020 devices. With the unused half of the 512k of a '040 on a MMC1 cart, A18 is moot as long as the EPROM is filled with the ROM image be it 128K or 256K.
Another point that may have some impact is the handling of /OE and /CE. Not sure how much but there is a timing difference between the two, with /OE being the faster to respond given /CE tied low. Probability wouldn't make much difference on a fast Flash or EPROM (<90nS device) but could be an issue with an older 250nS rom.
Anyway my adventures were all with the latest version of NTRQ and it seem to be the easier of Neil's SxROM titles. I haven't tried the SXROM conversion; mainly because of the reported problems with NES carts and MMC1 versions. Since then I have found a great Flash cart project by INL over at NesDev that runs PR8 and Pulsar. You may want to check out his shop, he plans to start building FC carts soon. He has sourced a 3rd party cart case, so now he can design a standard board outline based on it.
Thanks again,
Yogi

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2014-02-14T08:21:04Z

Hey Yogi,
blimey only just noticed your comments: just a quick note, the confusion is caused as the pinouts on my diagram mean you can use a a 27c040 (512k) chip /o\ sorry about any confusion there - the pinout for 27c010 (128k) / 27c020 (256k) have a slightly different assignment for pin 31... On a 27c040 pin 31 is A18 y'see... v. odd that pin 1 would be complaining although tbh best practice is def to tie any floating pins - didn't think that would cause any issue tho - at least it does not on the Famicom Well done for fiddling and getting it working on the NES

I'll try and change the guide to reflect that soon! ^

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2013-12-12T05:22:35Z

Well, I wired up 2 SNROM boards, one with a socket and a 'N' MMC1 B1 (open Golf) and the other with a 'S' MMC1 A (Kid Icarus).
I burned a 27C010 with NTRQ and tried it in the socket cart (Golf)-it ran fine! I then soldered it into the second cart (Kid I) and all is well.
On both these carts I followed the guide I just posted above. Don't know if it's just tying pin 1 Vpp and pin 31 /PRG high, but both MMCs seemed to work.
Yogi

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2013-11-27T14:22:29Z

I'm bumping this because I found a slight issue with ne7's NTRQ how-to. I haven't tested and don't know the impact but will be doing some testing.
After doing some research for a related SNROM mod, I noticed that the Hack it up NTRQ guide shows EPROM pin 31 tied to NES ROM pin 2. On the cart, this signal is /CE from MMC pin 5, on the EPROM this is xx/PGM. This doesn't seem right, every chip access would assert the /PGM pin on the EPROM, but I don't know how it would effect a EPROM.
I found another SNROM guide that leaves pin 31 tied high, as well as jumpers EPROM pin 1 to Vcc rather then leave it floating. http://www.54.org/sage/condev/ff2cartproject/
Yogi

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-28T20:58:58Z

It's Cool, Neil. fighting these problems are part of the fun. I'm not an uber NES console hacker, so messing with these hacks is fun learning. The easy route is an EMU on my PC
Whats got me interested is the diff between a 'real' MMU1 and PowerPak mapping. For that matter what's up between NEC MMU1 and Sharp MMU1 chips?
Anyways, Thanks Neil for doing the hard part, coding pure goodness for the world! Listening to SMMM wile sitting here!

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-28T20:26:32Z

Reading about all these problems is saddening. I wish I could help more

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-27T17:36:55Z

>TSC Read your efforts here with great interest. not clear on how you fared with NTRQ, was it also MMC ver dependent? The Kid Ich cart has a Sharp MMC1A; so I'll try NTRQ with the stock open Golf MMC1B3, to confirm a TRUE neg, then plan to replace it with the KI MMC1A.

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-27T16:46:33Z

RE: Sharp and NEC MMC chips -

The Sharp MMCs always managed to work, even on games that have been reported as not working...the NECs not so much. In the example of NES Open Golf - I replaced the NEC with a Sharp and got NTRQ to work. I even burned the game back onto an EPROM to test the soldering, and it worked, so I'm convinced it's the MMC.

RE: PR8 -

I can get it to start/play around for a bit, but it *will* crash after a few minutes of use.

RE: Pulsar -

I use the same method as PR8, but it runs corrupt and is basically unusable.

RE: Reset -

Pushing reset basically fucks everything up no matter what on PR8/Pulsar. It's almost as though it doesn't fully clear any leftover data.

I've tested various boards, EPROMs, burns, systems, weekdays, batteries and alignments of planetary bodies. No solid answer.

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-27T16:13:46Z

just to doc :
Open Golf-
NES-SNROM-05 1987 'N' MMC1B3
CR2023; R1, 2 & 3; D 1&2; C8; installed. 'SL' jumper OPEN
PRG- 32 pin

Spot-
NES-SNROM-05 1987 'N' MMC1B2
*no Batt*. R1, 2 & 3; D 1 & 2; C8 empty. 'SL' jumper CLOSED
PRG-28 pin

Kid Icarus-
NES-SNROM-02 1987 'S' MMC1A
*no Batt* R1 installed, R2 & 3; D 1 & 2 Missing. No footprint for C8. Jumper bridge under D2 CLOSED
PRG-28pin

Just a thought, it occurred to me that the boot problems may be related to the backup batt. On the Golf cart, and I'm guessing others, the CR2032 is welded to the battery clips, so a weak batt can not be replaced. If it IS weak could it corrupt the ram during backup periods?

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-24T19:44:37Z

I reallllly want to try this. Got the Willem burner set up and some ebay carts enroute, but wanted to hear from peoples that got one or both working and what carts they used? NES carts that work: Zelds, Bard's Tale: Nen Open Golf not so much?
I got a Kid Icarus, SPOT & Nen Open Golf coming. Will have to add battery to SPOT I think, but no biggie.
Just wanted to round up the winning carts

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-11-02T19:16:54Z

A quick update - I managed to get Pulsar to start, but it now displays the same behavior as PR8 (freezing after a minute or two of use). It also seems buggy with chain/block recognition, but I don't know if that is due to the nature of the hacked cart or if it's part of what Theta_Frost had mentioned.

On a different note - when looking at the MMC you can tell the manufacturer by the "S" or "N" after the MMC number. I'm sure this is obvious, but I didn't feel like pouring through threads over at NESDev to confirm.

I'm still experiencing garbled screens/colors when hitting Reset. I think I may just sell all the tools off this weekend. The Powerpak is looking better by the hour.

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-10-22T21:17:59Z

I've been meaning to send you a lengthy feature request/bug report kind of thing. I'll definitely have time later this week.

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-10-22T10:28:51Z

By request I'm just registering that I'm watching this with interest and concern.

However my hands are really tied. I don't have the setup or knowledge (or time!) to start getting into testing my software on these hacked carts. It all seems a bit hit and miss which would make debugging software issues a total nightmare. If someone has a definite answer which would point to something that needs fixing/changing then I'd be more than happy to look into it.

@theta: pm me with details about the issues you've been having with PR8/Pulsar on your Powerpak

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-10-22T05:35:11Z

Powerpak. I'm spoiled with my NES setup. I had the grey screen problem when I hadn't updated my mapper list. However, that doesn't sound like it should be the problem with yours. ???

Re: Putting NTRQ & Pulsar & PR8 on a Famicom cart (Guide)

2012-10-22T03:33:45Z

Thanks! I'd relay the info, but my posts are ignored.

How did you manage to get Pulsar working on hardware? It literally boots to a grey screen with numbers for me. It turns blue when I reset. Ha.