Same here. I mostly played in punk-ska bands as a kid, and I didn't even know there was a way to count. Those little metal chug-chug-chug off beat moments in songs were just something I learned to play by feel. I didn't realize a "swing beat" was different until I tried to program a MIDI with a swing beat and couldn't understand why it sounded too rigid. It wasn't until I jammed with some old guys from my area and was playing Money by Pink Floyd and some other prog-ish stuff that I realized how that works. I think it's still best by feel. But somehow Castor and C-Clamp completely get in my head with their changes, I feel compelled to understand them...

Damn, that's refreshing to read! I can't help but count/feel by groove, as my brain has been "wired" that way since I was young with music lessons/school. Counting individual beats is often something music students do to work through difficult patterns, but there's this attitude that says their not encouraged to do that all the time, because they have to learn about different time signatures. If they stick with counting individual beats, they won't know that 6/8 is supposed to be a compound rhythm made up of two pulses of 3 eighth notes, so the "groove" is felt as two main beats.

In music with complex meters, individual counting is a necessity! What you've said is a great exercise, and I'll have to try and train my brain to think more like that:) But playing the devil's advocate, I don't think I could do that while trying to play a bossa nova, etc. My brain just goes right to the feel of rhythm over longer periods of time.

Cool discussion:)

Same.  Solarbear got me into it, and it makes things so much easier.  Although to be honest I hardly ever count out my own stuff like this, I tend to make my drums more "groove" based than anything, but for stings?  Hell yes,  this is the best thing.

should check out some bozart, champs, or c average, ahah

I do the same thing. It's easy to keep the steady beat, it's the extra beats that can throw you, but I admit I've never played anything more complex than black dog by led zeppelin.

Somehow your music makes a lot more sense to me now.

Sorry for the double post but this is kinda referring to my Tera Melos post before:

I actually count things kinda weird. I don't count by the measure, I count by the beat. So everything to me is 1/4 I guess, and then when a smaller/larger subdivision occurs I then use that to count upwards.

So a pattern of 3/4, 5/8, and then 4/4 to me would just be:

one, one, one, 1-2-3-4-5, one, one, one, one

So basically I only use numbers other than "1" when it's not a traditional quarter beat. For me it simplifies what you're thinking about because even counting is still an active mathematical process that takes mental ability. This makes it really easier for me to write and play the super complicated stuff because you're no longer adding up numbers to the bar but taking the "buffer size" down to a single beat and working from there. That's how the Tera Melos guys do it sometimes and it's how they're able to seamlessly add/remove a beat into certain parts. They're not focused on the groove of the measure but instead each individual beat.

Of course, you'll likely never write anything dance-able with this thought process. But this is math rock I'm talking about here, you don't dance - you spaz

YOOOOOO This is one of my favorite songs EVER

This version is WAY BETTER tho IMO - they are so much better of a band now that they lost the techmetal edgey aesthetic and went way more "hella gnar"

try counting to this:

go follow this on the first listen then
https://ebugogo.bandcamp.com/album/chase-scenes-1-14

..

muscle memory

The trick is one of them grooves and the other is just awkward (not always a bad thing)

That was enjoyable. Weirdly, that makes more sense to me than Castor. It has some twists (3:40-4:10 especially) but I can see where it's going. Castor just seems to drop totally out of synch and then wind back up again. I guess thinking as a drummer, I can follow what she's doing, Castor, to me is a mystery.

*head bobbing intensifies*

i could watch this video all day.