If any of you were interested in this game, the kickstarter just went live today.

Boss Monster

Awesome!

The judging has concluded and we have selected a winner for this contest, the very talented Lars the Laohu!

In the process, my brother and I had a serious discussion about the concerns voiced in this thread. As designers, the last thing we want to do is make other artists feel they're giving up ownership of their work. So we contacted a lawyer friend and learned how to structure a more favorable agreement. The result is that instead of buying this song for $100, we have structured it as a license. Lars still gets the $100 we promised, and we're allowed to give away the MP3 a fun Kickstarter bonus for our card game, but he retains full ownership of the song.

It may not address every single concern raised here -- people in the contest still had to "work on spec" if they didn't have a relevant portfolio piece -- but I hope it shows our respect for Lars and every artist who submitted awesome chiptune music for this contest.

Thanks again for being an awesome community, and for helping us see the light on this issue.

Chris

Hi folks, just a reminder that the deadline for this contest is rapidly approaching (Oct. 7, 2012).  We've gotten some great entries, but we're always eager to here from more of you.

Chris

I'm glad this thread came up, since it opened the dialogue on spec work.

I'm generally against spec work, and the "graphic design competition" idea generally makes me ill at ease, especially when it is proposed by another artist—in that case, it is simply one artist devaluing the work of another artist. That said, I did enter the Nonelectronics Sticker Design Contest, but it was my choice to do that even though I was well aware that it was spec work as well as a grey area for my own ethics.

That said, its a matter of both principals and of personal investment. I churned out 4 sticker designs in Illustrator using design elements left over from earlier work, and it didn't take me that long. However, I'm an exceptionally mediocre musician, and I can't imagine ever finishing a 10 minute long composition. That is an opus by my standards. I couldn't fathom letting the rights to that go for $100 and a slap on the back.

You could always change your terms before you and the hypothetical artist(s) enter a legal agreement so that they retain their rights and you license the song at an affordably low royalty rate. How badly do you think your game will fail? Bad enough that you can't afford 5% or 10% royalties on usage of the song in your marketing? That doesn't sound like a lot of faith in your product.

Hi Nick,

We're going with work for hire for two reasons: 1) it gives us the most legal protection, and 2) we don't know yet how we might use the song.  The current plan is for the web site, the kickstarter video, and as a download for SOME copies of the game (not all, this would be a Kickstarter enticement to get people to pledge more), but we might come up with other uses of it in the future.  There is a high enough chance of Kickstarter failure that we don't want to commit to much more than that.

We're already starting to get some cool tracks.  I'm hoping others will take the leap, but as I've said multiple times in this post, this arrangement is not for everyone and I fully understand (and even condone) some of the critiques we're seeing here.  Please do consider the pros and cons of this arrangement before sending your work.  We're looking for someone who we (hopefully) can have a positive and supportive transaction with.

Chris

@Anty: they want people to write a 2-3:00 song for the competition then the winner extends it.
I agree, I think if people submitted a song they've already done, then they pick based off of style and medium it'd be a lot smoother. Then the winner could write just the 10 minute song and give them updates for feedback or something.

well, i'd be fine writing a song for $100. that'd be fine

i'm not writing a whole song just to be entered into a competition with others for the CHANCE of $100

but i don't do vgm-style so it doesn't matter what i think

edit: maybe a better idea would be to have the competition (if you insist on having the competition) about 15 or 30 second bits of songs, and ask the winner to develop the song in full ~ or even better, let people enter songs they've already written into the competition, and only if they win then asking them to write something new. 10 minutes of music is a bit commitment just for a chance (although might be quite a good chance seeing how little interest there has been ) of payment, the less commitment you expect the more entries you will get and if you choose someone before the song is written you may get more feedback or dare i say CONTROL over what the song sounds like. no one is going to write a 10 minute song for the privilege of being asked to write another 10 minute song (unless they are really desperate), so whatever you get in the competition is all you are going to get, i feel

edit: but i don't do vgm-style so it doesn't matter what i think

Don't do this without getting a cut of the profits. Looks like it might be a cool game.

This.
I've seen your card designs, and I reckon you could come up with some hella nice download cards!

May I suggest the 100$ is an up front payment for say first 100 units sold or whatever, and possibly a minimal royalty with every further sale? Let's say the game is 10 bucks, 10 cents per sale (unless the developers can spare more) is reasonable imo because the song isn't what's being sold, it's the game with the song on the side as a fun bonus. Coneal could have easily not offered 100$, and asked for just contributors who would gladly do it free. Not all of us are top notch businessmen, if anything I would say most people here are just hobbyists who have never made a dime off their music and don't really mind if they do or not.

Also, I don't think you should send physical CD's. put the songs on bandcamp (or a website) and include download codes or whatever with the product. It's 2012, CD's are dead.

Can I also ask why does it have to be "all rights"? Why not a percentage of sales? Or why not additional money if the kickstarter is successful?

Will you be shipping a physical cd with each game too?

Yeah, I mean this is fine and that's why I don't want it to sound like I'm convincing people not to apply for this. I'm personally not interested in this kind of deal but as long as people understand what OP is offering, can't stop anyone from really pumping something sick out. I mean hell, this could turn out to be a really cool project in the end result, but I don't want people agreeing to a particular deal and then taking it out on the client when straight up they said what the deal is right away like they did here in the OP (unfortunately, this happens to a lot too). I don't think there will be any problem in this project getting a track but my suggestions are basically an attempt to haggle and make this competition a little more interesting in the process. But I also see what coneal is saying in where the focus of their budget is actually going to: this isn't a video game and people might even play and enjoy the game without playing the music at all. It's just interesting to talk about for me too I guess because this is a rare instance where the offer isn't a video game or commercial advertisement, but basically an add-on to an already existing concept.

If I made gamey music I wouldn't care about getting the royalties. I'd be happy with the 100 bucks and if the game took off I would be proud to know a song I made was getting a wide exposure. Sure it would be cool to continuously make money from it, but music is a hobby I do just because I love it. I understand everything you guys are saying on the legal aspects and what not, but honestly I wouldn't even care. If I was in coneal's position I would have just been like, "ayo, I can't pay you, but if any of you would like to  submit some game music for a free compilation to be used as promo material, that would be dope". I'm sure quite a few people would be like "oh this card game looks fly as fuck, I want my song to be associated with it, and possibly get a free set of these cards." But maybe that's just me and some y'all are like "aw heeeeeeeellllllllllllll naw, gimme dat paper".

Can't particularly argue with any of this, an0va.  These are all very reasonable warnings to new artists and I'd advise anyone considering doing this to talk it out the pros and cons with some of the more established musicians on the site.