GoingHam
Offline
Chicago
Telerophon wrote:

The keyboard is fine – the adapter I just finished is the likely culprit.

Is there any kind of obvious indicator that LSDj recognizes the keyboard it's synced to?

I also felt that my early keyboard woes were to blame on the adaption of PS/2 to DMG link port.
Don't worry though I feel your pain man. Still trying to get a any keyboard (Mostly the #70009 as its been verified functional by Vex) to sync with PS/2 socket.

LSDJ indicates that a keyboard is synced when your navigate to the project screen with the sync option selected previously. There will hopefully be a little I## in the near bottom left hand corner of the screen, this indicates you have a functional keyboard. The I## could be many of things such as I01, I02, I03, I14, or whatever as long as it isn't I00 (at least on LSDJ version 4.7.5_Stable) because then it just means that LSDJ hasn't detected any external hardware.

I have E-mailed Johan about the keyboard issues and such and this is what He had to say:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
well, it has been broken to and from. There are no real guarantees that it will work since the code is a hack that seems to work mostly... but I would not be surprised if some keyboards have timings that dont work. You could try for example 4.1.0 or 4.6.4...  or maybe really old versions as well..

Johan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I E-mailed Justin too about how I would go about testing the keyboard:
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First you you want to set the sync mode to "keyboard".
Then you need to make two identical chains in PU2 and PU2.
Enter one phrase and fill up only the instrument line with all blank instruments.
So it should just have 00 all the way down the phrase.
Press start to get the sequencer going.
You will want to turn your groove down to 1/1 so that your key presses are instant and if it's still not sensitive enough then turn your tempo up to 255.
You will need to turn these down if you want to have any commands otherwise they will all just sound distorted.
You will be able to see just by pressing the function keys what they all do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this information is passed on being as I can't find too much details about these damn keyboards.

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas
GoingHam wrote:

I also felt that my early keyboard woes were to blame on the adaption of PS/2 to DMG link port.
Don't worry though I feel your pain man. Still trying to get a any keyboard (Mostly the #70009 as its been verified functional by Vex) to sync with PS/2 socket.

For the record, I think I'm the only other person who has been using an Inland #70009, because it was literally the cheapest PS/2 keyboard I could get. I don't think Vex has used one. I apologize if I played any part in creating confusion about that.

That said, I can't think of a conceivable reason why one PS/2 keyboard would work and another wouldn't – the entire point of a standardized bus is universal compatibility. I mean, if they all varied that greatly in clock timing, then they wouldn't work on every computer that uses PS/2 keyboards, would they?

I'm also not a programmer, and don't know anything about how LSDj handles keyboard input. So, if by some dumb luck I picked a PS/2 keyboard that is different in some undocumented way from almost every other PS/2 keyboard, that'd be pretty crappy. I really hope that isn't the case.

I guess the quick way I could find out would be to open it up again and solder my re-pinned DMG-04 cable straight into the keyboard, but I'd really rather just get my adapter working.

On the upside, that PS/2 port Justin put in your DMG is fresh as hell – it looks so clean! Major props!

Also, thanks for compiling all of that information about the keyboard interface. I've been crawling google for a few weeks now and haven't found information that detailed.

EDIT:

Johan Kotlinski wrote:

Hi,
well, it has been broken to and from. There are no real guarantees that it will work since the code is a hack that seems to work mostly… but I would not be surprised if some keyboards have timings that dont work. You could try for example 4.1.0 or 4.6.4…  or maybe really old versions as well…

This question and all of its potential answers will go way over my head, but has anyone figured out what the "acceptable range" for keyboard timings would be? I seriously doubt anything like that has been done. I'll play with some different versions, perhaps.

Last edited by Telerophon (Jul 3, 2012 8:28 am)

GoingHam
Offline
Chicago

Thanks for clearing the confusion up, I can return this and get a pack of cigarettes!

As for the PS/2 clock timing varying and not working on different computers question. I think it probably has to sync cpu clock cycles when you boot a computer, as I know for certain if you were to plug in a PS/2 keyboard in while a computer is fully on it won't work until the system is rebooted.

key mapping
SPACE play using custom table
F1/F2 octave down/up
F3/F4 instrument down/up
F5/F6 select custom table to assign to SPACE
F8 change pulse instrument playback channels (PU1, PU2, PU1+2)
F9-F12 toggle channel mute (switches on key press)
CTRL + (F9-F12) tap channel mute (switches on key press and release)
Diagram and such from: http://the.fontvir.us/b10g/?id=126

As for figuring out acceptable range of keyboard timings, I don't think they'll every be figured out. I mean even when the man behind the all the source code of LSDJ says their is no guarantees with this hack, pretty much means that he can be of little too no assistance in this matter.
I highly doubt any keyboard that is 'different' would sync too LSDJ. It either works or it doesn't do much of anything at all, again as far as I know of.
If you keyboard does work though the keys should have the functions mentioned in the diagram.

Thanks, Justin does some amazing work! I would recommend his service any day.

Lastly here are some keyboards that Thetris has in his tutorial:
COLOR CHART 1:
HP Model# KB-0316
Fujitsu Siemens Model# KDW-205

COLOR CHART 2:
DELL Model# SK-8110
DELL Model# SK-8100

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas

Hey Guys,

Thanks again to all of you who've expressed interest in a keyboard.

I've worked out the complications and gotten mine functional, but I still want to test it a bit more heavily so that I can feel confident in the quality of the product I will be able to provide.

Thanks again for your time and consideration, I'll be back in touch with interested parties in the near future.

mepufw
Offline
hhhhnnnnnngggggggggg

i am interested in purchasing one of your keyboards if you decide to start making em im really liking the pic in the first post, i would pay $40-$50 for one that looks similar ;p let me know!

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas

Quick Update:

Everything seems to work on these test units as well as possible, but the current issue is that in the course of all of my troubleshooting, I've discovered that the keyboard sync implementation in LSDj is far from perfect, and that some keyboards just don't play nice with it. There is no way to know which keyboards it will like.

So, I'm going to test a bunch of different keyboards with my hardware to make sure that the model I've painted and was intending to reproduce isn't one of the keyboards that just doesn't get along with LSDj—it'd be unfortunate were that the case, but if I isolate this as a problem, I'll be making better keyboards.

The advantage of having learned to build DMG adapters instead of dedicated keyboards is that I can just walk into a thrift store or electronics liquidator and start plugging them into my DMG—I get to be that weirdo! wink

Thank you all again for your interest and patience.

Last edited by Telerophon (Jul 18, 2012 12:20 pm)

Grymmtymm
Offline
KC

if your adaptor and keyboard isn't working, then it most likely is the wires not being matched up.

you can't go on the color coding pictures alone.

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas

The adapter works, 100%. Input from the keyboard gets to the Game Boy. The Game Boy makes sounds.

They aren't the sounds you want it to make, though, which could indicate some kind of clock mismatch with what the Keyboard is generating and what the code in LSDj wants. It's firmly a keyboard problem.

Specifically, the current issue is that the keyboard will change instruments by itself, usually to a random unconfigured instrument setting, if one plays at what I would consider to be a normal real-time playing speed.

If the wiring in the adapter was wrong, it just wouldn't work—it's only four wires, if any one of them wasn't connected, there would just be no functionality. At first I thought it could be some kind of cross-talk, but I'm fairly certain that would cause a much more severe malfunction than this.

Last edited by Telerophon (Jul 18, 2012 1:55 pm)

GoingHam
Offline
Chicago
Telerophon wrote:

I can just walk into a thrift store or electronics liquidator and start plugging them into my DMG—I get to be that weirdo! wink

Hahahaha, I know that feeling

Jake Allison
Offline
Tulsa, OK

I respect you for testing your product properly

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas

Progress!

I went to the local Discount Electronics Dell Liquidator today and found that they, like most electronics stores I've found these days, only carry one variety of PS/2 keyboard, which is inevitably priced at about $10. I've checked the area Goodwill stores as well, they also only have USB keyboards as of late. hmm

Voici le clavier du jour:

Selling Point: Can be used dexterously!

The model number is an OG KBJ-006B, available from NewEgg, amongst other places.

I asked them if I could try it out, and the merchant said "…I actually don't think we have any computers with PS/2 ports."

Then I got to be the coolest kid in school as I explained that I wanted to try it with my Game Boy, and demonstrated thusly. To my chagrin, this keyboard just works—so, the one I painted the first time is perfectly functional, with the exception of just not being entirely LSDj friendly for whatever reason.

So, now all that's left is for me to paint this one, make sure my process works, then reassemble and test again.

Then, I can easily make as many of these as fits demand.

Jake Allison wrote:

I respect you for testing your product properly

Thanks man, I really appreciate that sentiment. I'm glad it looks that way; I feel like I've been stringing people along with technical difficulties this whole time, and looking stupid in the process.

Anyway, we have now identified a current production, readily available, and confirmed 100% LSDj compatible keyboard, so it was worth it. smile

GoingHam
Offline
Chicago
Telerophon wrote:

Anyway, we have now identified a current production, readily available, and confirmed 100% LSDj compatible keyboard, so it was worth it. smile

Sweet fuckin' sauce man! I'm so relieved somebody finally tracked down a functional keyboard.(Cheap too)

I assume, Telerophon, that you've tested this model of keyboard + your adapter/s w/ multiple DMGs correct?

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas

I actually just found something weird with this keyboard, which is that the space bar function to activate a table bank only works as a pedal function--which is to say that you have to hold the space bar down for the table to be active… it's weird.

The first keyboard I painted that LSDj doesn't like has full functionality where the space bar will switch a table on or off.

In light of this, though, I have to retract a prior statement:

Telerophon wrote:

…confirmed 100% LSDj compatible keyboard…

This is a 99% LSDj compatible keyboard. The keyboard implementation in LSDj is admittedly buggy. Finding a keyboard that works perfectly is a stroke of luck, and since new production PS/2 keyboards aren't consistently available anymore, this is a sacrifice I can live with.

GoingHam wrote:

I assume, Telerophon, that you've tested this model of keyboard + your adapter/s w/ multiple DMGs correct?

I have five DMGs, and it works with all five. smile

GoingHam
Offline
Chicago

Ordered the keyboard, posting results when it arrives.

Telerophon
Offline
Austin, Texas

Good luck!

GoingHam
Offline
Chicago

The  OG KBJ-006B keyboard does not fucking shit for me!
Not even a page up or a F#6 note (Only thing I've ever had a keyboard do). Absolutely no functionality.

I'm about ready to give up on this venture.