EQAVOX
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Hey Guys, I have only just signed up on here as I need some advice from people who will have a greater knowledge of these things than myself to help me out.

I realise that many of you don't like my music, I acknowledge your complaints and criticisms and I would appreciate it if this remains on the topic of what I am asking about. If you are not a fan of my music, That is completely fine. I didn't come here for harassment, just help and advise. Lets leave my music out of this, leave previous nonsense behind in the past where it belongs and move on please.

Now that is out of the way. I am wondering if anybody could help me. I am currently using VST's to emulate SID sounds, Some are better than others but I think we could all agree nothing ever really matches up to that original sound. So my question is;

Is it possible to use my Keyboard to control the SID chip via MIDI and what is the best way to go about doing this ?

I have heard of the MSSIAH cart, but was wondering if anybody with more experience could provide me with more details on how to get the best from the chip and how to go about it.

Thanks.

W4LKR
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MSSIAH is a lovely program. The only lame part about it is that saving your presets or songs is a pain is the ***.

The monosynth on MSSIAH is capable of what you want to do (using your midikeyboard to 'control' the SID chip).

I don't know if they still sell MSSIAH cartridges and also the forums went offline about a week ago.

EQAVOX
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I hope they do still sell them, looking at getting a modified Commodore 64 with audio outputs, Would be a shame if they stopped making them.

plgDavid
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Montreal

C64 with audio outputs? Thats like by default.

EQAVOX
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Sorry should have said 1/4 audio outputs.

breakphase
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Earth

you can get hardsid, or mssiah, or one of the c64 midiboxes. mssiah is pretty good for what you want. It's not too complicated either.

chunter
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Brunswick, GA USA

If you can find one there's http://www.elektron.se/products/sidstation

EQAVOX
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I have heard of Sidstation, quiet a few people say they prefer "SammichSID" to Sidstation. Anybody had any experience with one or the other, or both ? would be interesting to hear about their defining features and what makes them unique to one another.

Last edited by EQAVOX (Jun 4, 2013 7:20 pm)

Alpine
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UK, Leicester
EQAVOX wrote:

I have heard of Sidstation, quiet a few people say they prefer "SammichSID" to Sidstation. Anybody had any experience with one or the other, or both ? would be interesting to hear about their defining features and what makes them unique to one another.

No experience with them, but according to the SammichSID website, they're not in production, and they aren't making any more any time soon. There is a dude in the hardware section of this forum who made a SammichSID clone kinda thing, but that doesn't actually use a commodore SID.

TylerBarnes
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Dallas, Texas

MSSIAH is very well put together. Standard piano roll for note inputs, virtual knobs on most parameters, midi controllable/syncable. The only pain as mentioned before is saving. Floppy disks are a hassle and slow. If you know how to solder it's a terrific option. Cause don't assume you can use this cart with zero modification. You just can't. The software relies on potentiometers to control the virtual knobs. You MUST install these pots yourself to the user ports. Also if you want the most out of it you will want to put together a SID2SID expansion by ordering a PCB from the site as well. This will give you 6 channels instead of only three. Another downside is the availability of fairly priced Commodore 64's out there. It has gotten way out of hand on ebay. I've seen systems for $100+   In my opinion $40 is reasonably fair. $50 if it's clean and has power supply, but don't expect to find this type of pricing cause people these days stop caring about fair.

W4LKR
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Also, you could check out synthcart. It's a cartridge which allows you to play synthesizer on your C64.
But the thing is, which might be a problem for you, it doesn't support midi. You use the keys on the C64 to play. There are C64 piano overlays available on ebay I guess. Got one myself and it's tons of fun.

Last edited by W4LKR (Jun 4, 2013 9:28 pm)

4mat
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MSSIAH/SynthCart etc are never going to sound as good as a dedicated demoscene tracker. (or GoatTracker)  Those guys know the chips inside and out.   If you really need Midi I guess there's no other option (well, except for the latest SDI ) , but in every other case the cutting edge for SID work comes from the demoscene, not anywhere else.    SDI/JCH/SidWizard/John Player, even the old ones like Music Assembler sound 2000% better than the cart devices.

Last edited by 4mat (Jun 4, 2013 11:04 pm)

EQAVOX
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I have GoatTracker, but have yet to figure out how to use it. MIDI is something I like to have as I am a keyboard player, thus my strengths lie with actually playing rather than programming on Famitracker. I can work Famitracker a bit, but I much prefer to play on keys than use trackers. It is currently something I am trying to get my head around, how to use them correctly to get optimum results from them.

chunter
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Brunswick, GA USA
4mat wrote:

MSSIAH/SynthCart etc are never going to sound as good as a dedicated demoscene tracker. (or GoatTracker)  Those guys know the chips inside and out... *snip* in every other case the cutting edge for SID work comes from the demoscene, not anywhere else.    SDI/JCH/SidWizard/John Player, even the old ones like Music Assembler sound 2000% better than the cart devices.

This. It sounds like you've already learned/discovered that trackers are a different instrument and it takes serious dedication to learn to play. It is possible to learn to approximate what people do with the SID using synths and such, but the difference isn't in having the real hardware: it's knowing exactly what to do programming-wise to get the SID to make those sounds.

Once you know how it's done, you can make a synth of your choice approximate them (though it will sound like just that, an approximation.)

In fact, once you understand any chip hardware intimately enough, you can dupe the tones on any synth, but you have to reach that understanding first. Without that understanding, even a MSSIAH will go beep and sound unremarkable.

Last edited by chunter (Jun 5, 2013 3:12 am)

breakphase
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Earth

Now that I think about it mssiah doesn't let you use instrument-tables with midi, except in a certain mode where you can only use three diff patches at a time. To get the classic sid  sound you really need that. Something to consider. Maybe Sammich SID does support that better.

Also, yeah, mssiah doesn't sound as nice as a good tracker.

Last edited by breakphase (Jun 5, 2013 3:38 am)

yogi
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Jelly Stone park, MD USA

If you are into DIY projects at all, then go to Midibox.org. Be warned: this is a DIY only project, no 'order' button. There are lots of SID options, the SammichSID is a version of the basic hardware. You can reproduce the SammichSID with separate boards or go for a 8 SID monster.
There are sources for boards both in the US and Europe, and even parts kits, so really the only hassle is finding the SID (but from time to time they are for sale on the buy/sell forum there, might even find a built SID box).
Good luck wink
EDIT:
Just thought that I should say that the Midibox SID has way more sonic ability then a midi interface to a C64. The SID chip is directly controlled by a embedded PIC controller, It allows for very sophisticated control. Check out the sound samples!

Last edited by yogi (Jun 5, 2013 7:03 pm)