qb
Offline
Arad, Romania

A beginner chiptune composer sent me his music and I want to help him. I don't know any music theory basically. I compose by ear only and I usually can tell when an instrument is off key, but sometimes I'm not too sure. That's why I want your input. Do any of the following songs contain instruments that are off key (they all sound off key to me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOx19aV2osg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lghmdPCcvOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvowcJBGioU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3Hy0kckuM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA-jJfI8hLU


You don't have to listen to all of them. One or two is enough. If he made a mistake with one of them and didn't notice, that means he can't exactly tell when sounds are off key. I used to have that problem too in the beginning. Nowadays I figure out the key I want to use before I start a song, and that way I won't make any mistakes like that.

Dr.CMP
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Fort Myers, FL

I think it depends; according to traditional music theory, there are several notes which would fall outside of the tonic key. I would say that, however, the use of borrowed notes are acceptable in certain situations (i.e., chromatic passages, borrowed relative chords, etc...). The "modern" era of academic music (circa 1900 - present) is basically about breaking the rules of music theory.

So, to a person who is classically trained; yes, there are certain notes which are outside of the tonic key (if there is one); though it does not necessarily make it wrong. At least by today's standards.

irrlichtproject
Offline
Nomad's Land

Bine, guy's got quite a bit of talent, he just needs to practise more. His leads are kinda odd sometimes and could be improved. But as Dr.CMP said, not following traditional music theory doesn't mean it's wrong.

Fudgers
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Indiana

just listening to the first track, is off key what he's going for? it definitely is off key, but maybe that's not a problem if it's what he wants...

Last edited by Fudgers (Aug 10, 2013 4:56 pm)

qb
Offline
Arad, Romania
Dr.CMP wrote:

The "modern" era of academic music (circa 1900 - present) is basically about breaking the rules of music theory.

I didn't know that. I expected it from really abstract music that doesn't emphasize on melody, but in music that is really melodic I don't find it acceptable if there are too many off key notes. It doesn't sound pleasant.

Edit: I don't think it was intentional.

Last edited by qb (Aug 10, 2013 5:20 pm)

kfaraday
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barf

the dissonances are lovely~! (i just wish it was less repetitive... i've gotten used to its loveliness too quickly!)

ForaBrokenEarth
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Nottingham, UK

I wouldn't say off key, it's more like a bit chromatic. The songs don't seem to have a strong harmonic structure to deviate from. If that isn't what your friend is going for, I'd recommend that they work on their chord structure. The arps aren't strongly indicating a key for the song, which can make your melodies sound a bit random no matter what you do.

Dr.CMP
Offline
Fort Myers, FL
qb wrote:

I didn't know that. I expected it from really abstract music that doesn't emphasize on melody, but in music that is really melodic I don't find it acceptable if there are too many off key notes. It doesn't sound pleasant.

Edit: I don't think it was intentional.

Maybe it was just the way I understood music history in college - at least the academic view of music history - was that Baroque music was highly ornate, yet very structured. The classical era (1750-1825/27) focused more on nature and simplicity. The romantic era saw many composers pushing the limits, or bending the rules. The problem with the academic music history, is that it basically ignores the divergence of popular music from that which became academic (i.e., atonal, serial rows, 12 tone compositions, microtonal, etc...).

qb, I certainly agree that poorly used chromatic notes sound really bad.

Dr.CMP
Offline
Fort Myers, FL
ForaBrokenEarth wrote:

I'd recommend that they work on their chord structure.

Agreed.

kfaraday
Offline
barf

heaven forbid songs play with their tonality once in a while~ oy oy

chunter
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Brunswick, GA USA

I think the problem, if there is one, is that he is occasionally playing notes that don't go with the "chord" of the arp, which as k says, is not a crime, but to my extremely trained ear and from the OP's intro it suggests that he's dicking around and keeping what works, which is also not a crime; in fact it's how one learns.

I think it's actually pretty good, I hear tons of potential. I hear dynamics, which a lot of people don't experiment with when starting.

Even if you don't learn the chords themselves, try to at least learn their functions even if it's just by your own feel.

Last edited by chunter (Aug 11, 2013 1:41 am)

Zimbolt
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sounds fine to me

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America
kfaraday wrote:

heaven forbid songs play with their tonality once in a while~ oy oy

It's really just a matter of what the artist intended for the music to be, and who is the intended audience. Oft times you can tell that a person is intentionally playing with tonality from an educated and deliberate stand-point as opposed to someone who doesn't really know what they're doing or why, and to many people the latter is displeasing to the ears.

*Disclaimer: I have not listened to the tunes.

Monotron
Offline
Douglas, Wyoming

Very related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrjg3jzP2uI