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Sweeeeeeden

This is a question for anyone who can answer it, but I suspect Note! might have a clue. (Or Yano-san himself?)
Most kanji do, as you know, have a kunyomi (Japanese) and an onyomi (Chinese) reading. But is there any way, or rule of thumb, as to which reading is the appropriate one in a certain instance? Can you make it out from the position in a sentence or other factors?

Take Rei Yano's song title for example...
懐かしい都市
natsu-kashii toshi
The first kanji is natsu(ku) in kunyomi. Then follows the kashii suffix in hiragana. (Speaking of which, what does the suffix mean?)
Then follows, in onyomi, to and shi both meaning city in slightly different ways. I somehow get the feeling that it's rather Chinese to form words by joining similar signs in that way. Is that a useful rule of thumb?

Thanks for your time. smile

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A gray world of dread

I don't think there's a general rule, else they wouldn't have to bother with furigana. IIRC, compound kanji are mostly read onyomi, while single ones are read kunyomi.

Japanese writing really keeps me from learning the language, I'm no good with memorizing stuff like that.

Last edited by µB (Apr 17, 2010 6:27 pm)

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California

I hardly understand the written language of Japanese. I only learned to speak it (not fluent). I am back into studying it though.

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California
µB wrote:

I don't think there's a general rule, else they wouldn't have to bother with furigana. IIRC, compound kanji are mostly ready onyomi, while single ones are read kunyomi.

Japanese writing really keeps me from learning the language, I'm no good with memorizing stuff like that.

furigana is my best friend.

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Brooklon

As a general rule, kanji in words that contain hiragana (like natsukashii) use the kunyomi, single kanji often use kunyomi (水 is read mizu and not sui unless you put it in a compound like 温水 and it becomes onsui),  and compound kanji words, easily spotted by their lack of hiragana and often found in technical jargon of every kind and proper nouns, use onyomi. As with most languages, this is not a hard and fast rule and there are tons of exceptions. All bets are off when it comes to place names and family names. One example is that 'Sui' goes back to being 'mizu' in the often seen place name and family name Shimizu 清水 despite the fact that it's a kanji compound.

Nitro: regarding your question about suffix, natsukashii is actually the entire word and contains no suffix. The line between hiragana and kanji in a word that contains both does not neccesarily denote prefix/suffix. Instead, the line between a kanji character and hiragana characters will often approximate what will change when you create different conjugations/forms of the verb/adjective/whatever. E.g.: Tanoshii or 楽しい will change to 楽しかった for the past tense, 楽しくない for the negative, 楽しくなくなりました for "it became not fun" and countless other variations. Notice the changes all occur after the し shi after the kanji character. That all may not make any sense.

All this being said, I'm definitely no expert and some of this may be wrong. Lazerbeat would probably be a better person to ask. If you do have other questions though, I'd be happy to try and answer them.

And, yeah, furigana is awesome despite being aesthetically ugly.

Last edited by Note! (Apr 17, 2010 10:30 pm)

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California

Thanks Note! really great info here. I learneded today. smile

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Brooklon

No prob Rei Yano! Glad I could contribute to your brains.

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Sweeeeeeden

That's an infromative post, Note! Thank you. Of course, the challenge to actually learn any reading and/or meaning for any useful number of kanji still remains. tongue

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Brooklon

It gets even more fun when one character can have like 7 or 8 readings. Ugh.

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California
Note! wrote:

It gets even more fun when one character can have like 7 or 8 readings. Ugh.

lol I think even Japanese people get confused by kanji. complex writing system!

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̛̛̩̥̩̥̩̥̅ ̥⎬̛̛̛̛̛̥̥̩̥̩̩

なしりい都市まくないし懐しか

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saintpaul, mn

japanese is such a fun language to learn. heart

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San Antonio, Texas

I have a love/hate relationship with kanji but I still love learning Japanese.

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Tokyo, Japan

Note! has hit the nail on the head with this question.

in summary:

kun-yomi for verbs and native adjectives,
on-yomi for (originally chinese) nouns, names, and compound verbs.

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A gray world of dread

Could one of you polyglots check the second point in the "read this first" section of this site and tell me if it would be kosher to use the samples there in a track? I don't trust google translation enough for that. Thanks!

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Brooklon

From a quick read I would say no although they specify "redistributing" via the web and stuff. If you are looking for free sounds and stuff, why not go to freesound.org? I'm sure they have Japanese train sounds.

After a quick search, I just found a bunch so yeah, head over there and just search "japan train station" er something.