jmc1987
Offline
Washington, PA

So, apart from making chiptune music, I'm also an obsessive vinyl aficionado. I've really wanted to have my music released on vinyl, but it seemed way too cost prohibitive for me.

Recently, I found a pressing plant that seems to have pretty reasonable rates for short runs (Palomino Records Pressing, an old square-dance record plant that has recently began pressing all sorts of vinyl), albeit still a cost that would be way too much for me to spring on my own. I'm thinking of having my two EPs released on a 12" record, with an EP on each side.

I'm considering doing a Kickstarter campaign to try to raise the money, but it'd pretty much be a pre-sale to see if I could actually sell the 50-100 copies I'd have pressed. So, the only real "prize" would be a copy of the record for a $20 "donation"... which is pretty much just buying the record for $15 plus $5 shipping. Since the EPs are both name-your-price-or-free downloads, I feel silly including a download as an incentive for backers and the only other prizes I can think of are test pressings or CDs... and since I use Kunaki to manufacture my CDs on demand, that actually might take away from the money earned.

What I'm wondering is, would anyone here be interested in picking up a copy if I were to go ahead with this Kickstarter idea? You can check out the EPs for free at http://portopak.bandcamp.com to hear what would be included. However, a few tracks will probably have alternate mixes, since vinyl doesn't handle bass or kick drum panning very well and I know I did it on at least one track.

tempsoundsolutions
Offline
TSSBAY01

you might wanna look into doing lathe cuts at first, sounds like you've got too much of an emotional thing with vinyl at first that following through with it and dealing with all the hassle of it and then getting rid of the product might sour you on it a little bit, its understandable and it sort of did with me when i did my 2nd vinyl about 10 years back.

vinyl is great, but its not for everyone to do early on without a big fanbase that will scoop it up quick because of how much of a time investment as well as a patience investment it is. but thats where lathe cuts come in, they're not as durable, but you can do 40 or 50 copies or less to start with and at least imo its best to do something thats low-challenge when you're in the process for building up a name for yourself, plus you can always print up more if it does well. i think lathe cuts for this reason are perfect and you even have a little more of a chance to make a profit with them as well as get em back faster too.

jmc1987
Offline
Washington, PA

Do you have any recommendations? A quick Googling shows that the price actually might not be that much better than just pressing 50 copies, but I could probably do a 10" or two 7" lathe cuts for much less.

tempsoundsolutions
Offline
TSSBAY01

look into peter king lathe cuts, lucky lacquers, maybe this guy. heard a lot of great things about him. http://www.2208records.blogspot.com/ or this dood too. http://justinlloydcreative.com/piaptk/lathecuts/ theres also meep records. http://meeprecords.com/

theres also a forum for dudes that do lathes called lathe trolls, maybe hit that up. thing about making vinyl is that it is sloooooooooooooooooooow as fuck depending on how many places have tall orders going. eks closed down a few months ago because of an explosion in the plant and a lot of other places had to pick up the slack for the demand. so depending on how quick you want it, you might be better off with lathes just based on the wait times. after you get test pressings from a spot like rainbo, you got another 5-6 weeks before you get your records...so thats like 2-3 months, usually more, not usually less. lathes is sorta a way around that for the most part.

jmc1987
Offline
Washington, PA

I did some more looking and I think I might go with the lathe cut option, just to avoid having a bunch of records I can't sell. However, I'm leaning more towards this guy: http://www.tangibleformats.com

He's cutting on virgin vinyl instead of polycarbonate. Prices are a bit high, but the packages include printed jackets. Well, not full jackets, but since I was originally planning on getting blank jackets and doing some kind of DIY printing method, it seems like a lot less hassle. It'd be $180 for 5 12" records, so the price per copy will be doubled, but a much more reasonable solution. I emailed him to ask how much a run of 20 would be, but with the nature of lathe cuts, I figure the price won't go down very much.

So now, what I'm thinking is this:
- Start an IndieGoGo campaign with flexible funding and a goal of $180
- Cost of getting the vinyl will be $45-$50
- Along with the vinyl, you'll also have your name printed on the sleeve (it's the neatest incentive I can come up with for a $45-$50 package)

That way, I'd need to sell 4 copies (because of course I'm keeping one for myself!) to do the package of 5, but if I don't get 4 sales, I'll still have most of the cost covered. Honestly, with the fees and shipping, I'm pretty positive I'll lose money here, but as long as it's like $100 out of pocket, it's not going to hurt me too bad financially.

Thanks for the recommendation!

tempsoundsolutions
Offline
TSSBAY01

ahahha, this is getting ridiculous. you will lose money regardless. that is what making music is for as far as the common dude who simply loves making music is concerned, slowly and painfully losing money in an effort to get what you are doing heard. if the risk of losing money means you have to turn to whatever to have it funded, that means you probably shouldnt do it, because you yourself dont have enough faith in seeing it through with your own effort. just my opinion, and opinions can be changed, but i think you'd have to work pretty hard to convince me otherwise based on what you've said. i have been making and releasing music for about 2/3 of my life whether its cassette, vinyl, cd, net release, flash drive attached to carrier pigeon or whatever the case, and at no point did i even say 'man, i hope i break even'. i guess that is why i keep saying these things to myself, because i am not so quick to turn to kickstarter or patreon or indiegogo whenever i want to make a new album. i just do it and release it and hope that they enjoy it.

so you want to put music out without that financial risk to yourself. thats well and fine. find a netlabel to put your music out, generate some buzz for yourself, kinda prove to others that what you have to offer is worth paying for in the first place and then get a label to release your music on vinyl. dont put the cart in front of the horse, dont expect others to support your work if you cannot support it yourself due to the financial risk. people do this all the time and you never heard from em again. i havent heard your music so i cannot say whether or not its worth the effort to print to vinyl. it could be the sonic equivalent of angels shitting gold. but you have to admit, its kinda fucked up to expect others to foot the bill for you and think that you shouldnt sink a few hundred of your own dollars into making a vinyl if you say you love it. you said you are a huge vinyl aficionado, maybe you should sell some of your rarer vinyl and fund it on your own if it means that much. ive given you more than enough info on how to do it economically without it being much of a drain, you'd have to research it on your own further to get the best prices. it sounds youre up on some chipotle bbq artisinal richard gere stuff rather than putting something out there to share and show what you can do. im not saying its easy or that i cant blame you, but come on.

its also fucked to hope that people will pay your way to make an record AND then charge an exorbitant fee on top of that for something with as small of a return as that. lathe cuts are meant to be quick and dirty and degrade whether its virgin vinyl or poly and should be used for just that, keeping the price low while generating buzz. people arent gonna pay you fifty bucks for it. a lot of the time they are cut in mono. now its seeming like you're up on some corksniffer crap trying to make the idea of a lathe cut release into something closer to a legit vinyl run with a number of copies that is so small that you would be in effect putting out a record that virtually nobody would hear. its not appealing. and OF COURSE you'd be keeping one for yourself, thats what a person who crowdsourced a lathe cut release in a run of 5 copies would do. probably has more to do with you loving the idea of making A Real Vinyl Record for yourself than the love for the music that you made and could easily share with others in any number of other mediums which would be far more prosperous. music is meant to be free, you have to be completely accepting to give it period. doesnt exactly seem you are even accepting of what it would take to make a record happen in the first place, much less letting others hear it. what kind of impact is a 4 copy run gonna make? who would fund you to make something that so few people could hear?

in the last 3 days, aphex twin fans on kickstarter have pledged over $38,000 for a caustic window album that was never released. im sure you can see where im going with this. there was ~5 copies of that caustic window record printed apparently. none of the dudes who has them will part with them or share rips of it. cylob has one, mike paradinas has one, rdj has one and grant who runs rephlex has one. whatever other test pressings of that which were given to friends, apparently one of the friends wants to sell it, maybe they're hurting financially or something. so yeah, if your 5 copy run of a lathe cut record somehow gets to be such a mystery to it over a span of 20 years because you rise to the heights that rdj did and you can anticipate that, then yeah. it was the right decision if you do in fact make music that is the sonic equivalent of angels shitting gold. go for it. crowdsource it and make it happen. but then again, you're talking about paying $180 for 5 records like its a good option and expecting people to help make it happen.

actually, forget what i said about lathe cuts altogether. if its not important enough to make a real record, spare your 4 friends your vanity and the awkwardness of expecting em to pay $50 for your music .

Boner
Offline
United States
tempsoundsolutions wrote:

ahahha, this is getting ridiculous. you will lose money regardless. that is what making music is for as far as the common dude who simply loves making music is concerned, slowly and painfully losing money in an effort to get what you are doing heard. if the risk of losing money means you have to turn to whatever to have it funded, that means you probably shouldnt do it, because you yourself dont have enough faith in seeing it through with your own effort. just my opinion, and opinions can be changed, but i think you'd have to work pretty hard to convince me otherwise based on what you've said. i have been making and releasing music for about 2/3 of my life whether its cassette, vinyl, cd, net release, flash drive attached to carrier pigeon or whatever the case, and at no point did i even say 'man, i hope i break even'. i guess that is why i keep saying these things to myself, because i am not so quick to turn to kickstarter or patreon or indiegogo whenever i want to make a new album. i just do it and release it and hope that they enjoy it.

so you want to put music out without that financial risk to yourself. thats well and fine. find a netlabel to put your music out, generate some buzz for yourself, kinda prove to others that what you have to offer is worth paying for in the first place and then get a label to release your music on vinyl. dont put the cart in front of the horse, dont expect others to support your work if you cannot support it yourself due to the financial risk. people do this all the time and you never heard from em again. i havent heard your music so i cannot say whether or not its worth the effort to print to vinyl. it could be the sonic equivalent of angels shitting gold. but you have to admit, its kinda fucked up to expect others to foot the bill for you and think that you shouldnt sink a few hundred of your own dollars into making a vinyl if you say you love it. you said you are a huge vinyl aficionado, maybe you should sell some of your rarer vinyl and fund it on your own if it means that much. ive given you more than enough info on how to do it economically without it being much of a drain, you'd have to research it on your own further to get the best prices. it sounds youre up on some chipotle bbq artisinal richard gere stuff rather than putting something out there to share and show what you can do. im not saying its easy or that i cant blame you, but come on.

its also fucked to hope that people will pay your way to make an record AND then charge an exorbitant fee on top of that for something with as small of a return as that. lathe cuts are meant to be quick and dirty and degrade whether its virgin vinyl or poly and should be used for just that, keeping the price low while generating buzz. people arent gonna pay you fifty bucks for it. a lot of the time they are cut in mono. now its seeming like you're up on some corksniffer crap trying to make the idea of a lathe cut release into something closer to a legit vinyl run with a number of copies that is so small that you would be in effect putting out a record that virtually nobody would hear. its not appealing. and OF COURSE you'd be keeping one for yourself, thats what a person who crowdsourced a lathe cut release in a run of 5 copies would do. probably has more to do with you loving the idea of making A Real Vinyl Record for yourself than the love for the music that you made and could easily share with others in any number of other mediums which would be far more prosperous. music is meant to be free, you have to be completely accepting to give it period. doesnt exactly seem you are even accepting of what it would take to make a record happen in the first place, much less letting others hear it. what kind of impact is a 4 copy run gonna make? who would fund you to make something that so few people could hear?

in the last 3 days, aphex twin fans on kickstarter have pledged over $38,000 for a caustic window album that was never released. im sure you can see where im going with this. there was ~5 copies of that caustic window record printed apparently. none of the dudes who has them will part with them or share rips of it. cylob has one, mike paradinas has one, rdj has one and grant who runs rephlex has one. whatever other test pressings of that which were given to friends, apparently one of the friends wants to sell it, maybe they're hurting financially or something. so yeah, if your 5 copy run of a lathe cut record somehow gets to be such a mystery to it over a span of 20 years because you rise to the heights that rdj did and you can anticipate that, then yeah. it was the right decision if you do in fact make music that is the sonic equivalent of angels shitting gold. go for it. crowdsource it and make it happen. but then again, you're talking about paying $180 for 5 records like its a good option and expecting people to help make it happen.

actually, forget what i said about lathe cuts altogether. if its not important enough to make a real record, spare your 4 friends your vanity and the awkwardness of expecting em to pay $50 for your music .

i stand by TSS on this 100

Last edited by Boner (Apr 13, 2014 9:35 am)

SuperBustySamuraiMonkey
Offline
Madriz, Supain

Save money by yourself and then rrlease it. Kickstarters are for famous lads and beggars. I did it that way myself smile

katsumbhong
Offline
Taichung, Taiwan

Have you looked into releasing your music on cassette tapes? Waaaaaaaaaay cheaper.

herr_prof
Offline
Unsubscribe

Your fans will tell you if they are clamoring for a vinyl release. If you cant feel their pulse, then youll likely lose money over it, but if your cool  with that go ahead. Id try selling something like a round of shirts first since that is easier to recoup, and use that as your guide to whether vinyl is a good next step.

lvlzero
Offline
Baja California
katsumbhong wrote:

Have you looked into releasing your music on cassette tapes?

+1

TSC
Offline
Milwaukee, WI
katsumbhong wrote:

Have you looked into releasing your music on cassette tapes? Waaaaaaaaaay cheaper.

CDr is even cheaper.

katsumbhong
Offline
Taichung, Taiwan
TSC wrote:
katsumbhong wrote:

Have you looked into releasing your music on cassette tapes? Waaaaaaaaaay cheaper.

CDr is even cheaper.

infradead
Offline
Tacoma WA

another thing to consider is the price of mastering.  if you're going to get it pressed and you're not planning on having it mastered by someone who has experience mastering for vinyl you're doing a huge disservice to anyone you're selling to.

and what TSS said.

jmc1987
Offline
Washington, PA

TSS, you must have missed some a bit of my first post here. The EPs I was hoping to press are already available as free downloads at Bandcamp. Even the titles of both EPs ("Reasonably Priced" and "Only Nineteen-Ninety-Nine") are joking references to the fact that they're free downloads.

I sell CD-Rs from Kunaki (an on demand CD/DVD duplication service that really everyone making music or movies should utilize at some point - http://www.kunaki.com) for $4 plus $3 shipping, when the total cost of making a CD and shipping it is $5.30. So, after PayPal and Bandcamp fees, I'm lucky to make $1 when I sell a CD. They're also for sale from iTunes and such, but always at the lowest possible price I can set through the two different aggregators I've used. I've not made a dime from other digital download stores, because I really push the Bandcamp page first and Spotify second, figuring those are the most convenient for anyone that would even take the time to listen and I don't really give a shit if anyone pays for a download.

Getting my music out there or making money isn't the purpose at all in what I was pitching here. It was to achieve my dream of having it on vinyl. The idea of crowd-funding a release of this material on vinyl was more of a "Hey, is this even worth it?" than trying to make money. I was considering it a presale more than anything. I don't think my music is by any means the sonic equivalent of angels shitting gold. I would just like for it to be released on vinyl. That's all. If no one wants it on vinyl, they're more than welcome to go download it for free. I wasn't trying to say my music is worth $50, I was saying, "If you want a vinyl copy, this is what it will cost."

I also don't quite understand if you are so against the idea of crowdfunding, why that wasn't brought up before even recommending lathe cuts. But maybe I was just excited about an option for short runs I hadn't explored and missed that your tone was more along the lines of "Hey, don't go crowd-funding when you can just have a lathe cut made."

If it's that bad of an idea, then I won't do it. What I was asking in the beginning was if crowdfunding for a vinyl release is a good idea and I think the answer is a resounding "No." So, I'll probably scrap the idea of pressing already-released material unless there's actually a demand. Or maybe just plunk down the money to make a single cut for myself and just ask if anyone else wants one before I send the order.

But I'll probably come up with some way for the physical version of my next release to be a lathe cut or actual pressing, even if it's just a track or two and extra tracks as a download. There's a good chance I may title that release "Not Quite the Sonic Equivalent of Angels Shitting Gold," because that's too good not to use.

(And a sidebar: I was actually considering a cassette release at one point, since I actually still listen to cassettes quite a bit. I actually replaced the CD player in my car with a stock CD/tape combo deck, since I had a bunch of tapes around and much more durable than CDs when it comes to being tossed around in the car. Though most importantly, I wanted to listen to podcasts in the car, hate fiddling with FM transmitters and found cassette adapters to be the cheapest and easiest option for my shitty 10 year old Saturn.)

Last edited by jmc1987 (Apr 13, 2014 7:38 pm)

Fudgers
Offline
Indiana
jmc1987 wrote:

Or maybe just plunk down the money to make a single cut for myself and just ask if anyone else wants one before I send the order

solved!