Robin
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Devon UK

One of my biggest musical influences is Celtic dance music. Usually a tune has two or more parts, which are looped, and then on to another tune.

With letters it might look like this: AA BB AA BB CC DD CC DD stop.

No intro, no build-up, no outro.

I'm looking for ideas/conventions about how to structure chiptune songs, and am curios to know how you guys approach this.

I understand pop music often has verse, chorus, verse chorus, middle-8, verse chorus or something like that.

Another idea is having a loop starting minimally and building up to a crescendo and then fading.

There must be a thousand way of doing it: what works for you?

R.

herr_prof
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I usually do everything at first in live mode, and try to come up with the hook first. Then i scroll down and start making a skeleton of the song structure and add what elements I think it needs to stay interesting, fills bridges variations on the theme etc. Transpose this section.. change the instrument slightly to add tension or make it more emotional. I then listen to the song over and over and if im not sick of it or bored in any section then its a good one.

Robin
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Devon UK

I'm a bit ignorant, but could you describe what you mean by a "hook?" Is that like a riff? Do you tend to have one riff going throughout, perhaps with breaks, but coming back, or do you let it evolve and morph into something else?

Also, I'm curios if people tend to use multiples of 4 bars strictly, including intros. For example would you let an intro build over 4 bars and then have the tune kick in, or would you be happy with a 1 bar intro, or maybe or one bar solo, then add some perc (hi hat?) for a bar then into tune?

I know there's no actual rules, but I curios to hear some guidelines.

Delta Centauri
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Toronto, Canada

The way I always tend to start my music is by first choosing a key, then improvising background arps and chords before actually going to into structuring the song.

My song structure usually follows the pattern of

Intro > Verse 1 > Verse 2 > Chorus > Bridge 1 > Relative Key Verse 1 > Relative Key Verse 2 > Bridge 2 > Verse 1 > Verse 2 > Chorus > Outro

My verses and chorus (chori?) are almost always 8 bars long, but my intros/outros/bridges can be less -- usually, I keep them at 4 bars. I have a tendency to write music in a minor key, so to change up my music I always go into the relative major key in the middle of the song; that's what those "relative key" verses are about. Sometimes I don't do that and just make some sort of interlude-esque type thing.

There's really no specific guidelines when it comes to song structure. But the idea of starting off simple, and then building up, before waning once more is something that I believe to be at the core of all song structures. However, I think experimenting outside the crescendo/decrescendo pattern is also totally fine.

herr_prof
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Robin wrote:

I'm a bit ignorant, but could you describe what you mean by a "hook?" Is that like a riff? Do you tend to have one riff going throughout, perhaps with breaks, but coming back, or do you let it evolve and morph into something else?

Also, I'm curios if people tend to use multiples of 4 bars strictly, including intros. For example would you let an intro build over 4 bars and then have the tune kick in, or would you be happy with a 1 bar intro, or maybe or one bar solo, then add some perc (hi hat?) for a bar then into tune?

I know there's no actual rules, but I curios to hear some guidelines.

Yea its something that I want to convey in the song. Ive really done songs in any method youve described. its basically whatever the songs requires/i can do/ what i can get away with.

Last edited by herr_prof (Dec 6, 2014 6:09 pm)

r0lemusic
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I use this overused pop structure at times when i have some things already composed but I still lacks suff or ideas to complete a whole song
(intro)->verse->pre chorus->chorus->verse->pre chorus->chorus->chorus2->(solo)->prechorus->chorus->chorus2

allways multiples of 4 bars

the biggest changes are on pre chorus that have some small harmony change and builds up some tension to solve into to the chorus, and the chorus2 wich is a diferent melody in the same key but with different harmony

Last edited by r0lemusic (Dec 6, 2014 10:57 pm)

Dire Hit
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Seattle, WA

I do something like intro-buildup-break-bridge-buildup-break-even harder break-outtro

This is a massive generalization though, my structures are very spur of the moment.

TEOMAWKI
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Minneapolis, MN
Dire Hit wrote:

I do something like intro-buildup-break-bridge-buildup-break-even harder break-outtro

This is a massive generalization though, my structures are very spur of the moment.

What he said. Also, don't limit yourself to just one type of song structure, play around some!

SketchMan3
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NC in the US of America

The hook is that catchy part that gets stuck in your head and brainwashes you and makes people be like "oh yeah that's my jam"


The way I approach structure is just let it happen however... if you like celtic structure then use it sometimes. Just do whatever fits. Or doesn't fit.

Last edited by SketchMan3 (Dec 7, 2014 6:01 am)

mk
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|> drum buildup -> pseudo-sidechain |
|___________________________________|
pizzacuttaz
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AU

^

JodyBigfoot
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im making it for rap so its pretty simple, sometimes theres bridges sometimes theres verse before chorus at the beginning, been thinking of including some instrumental parts that serve joy in the middle or end of song with no rapping

intro
chorus 8 bars
verse 16/24/32 bars
chorus 8 bars
verse 16/24/32 bars
chorus 8 bars
verse 16/24/32 bars
Outro

Sesska
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France (au milieu)

i'm stucked to crappy pop structure ''intro-verse-chorus-verse-breack-chorus-chorus-outro'' as I usually have to follow some other people's structure

but I dream about making one day some loooong linear structure, slowly growing in tension until explosive breack, like in old D&B tunes

one day...

Robin
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Devon UK

Thanks for all the answers. I may watch a few youtube vids on "song structure" to get some more background. I'm still not quite sure exactly what breaks/bridges and middle-8s are and how they work. (although now I think of it, I can hear James Brown in my head saying "shall I take them to the bridge?").

SketchMan3
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NC in the US of America

Break = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break_%28music%29

A Bridge is a section of the music that is different from the main section and serves as a transition between the main parts of the music. For example, in the N*Sync song "Bye Bye Bye"  the "I don't want to be a fool in this game for two..." section would be the bridge.

Breakdowns are also fun. That's where you simplify the main idea of the music to its bare bones and get the crowd to hand-clap with the snare or wave their cellphones in the air, lol

Last edited by SketchMan3 (Dec 24, 2014 5:32 pm)