I just put a sid2sid in. I got it for mssiah. I have cynthcart 1.2 which works with second sid at $DE00. Fattens right up and sounds nice. I also have kerberos cart. It uses second sid at $D420. I'd like to use the later version of cynthcart on it with both sids too. So I need to find a way to switch sid addresses with a hardware switch. Anyone..?
I saw something about something.. :-) it was talking about switching from pin 7 on cart port with a 100k resistor to pull it high when switched to something else.
I'm equipped with a very rudimentary understanding of what's going on inside the beast, a soldering iron, and a willing spirit. I'd love a place to solder another wire to, that did this and a switch for mssiah/kerberos action.
Also, I saw a new(?) C64 cynthcart was about to be released from tim harris. Anyone know any news there?
It's starting to look like there's no easy way to do this. $ D420 looks like it has to be accessed from "inside." Dualsid board uses a sn74ls139n. It has to be accessed from mpu or something. So, can anyone spoonfeed me some technical info dumbed down on a way to make that happen? Looks like the dualsid board isn't available to purchase new.
Shyte.
cynthcart website says cynthcart 2.0 carts will be released may 2016. You can download it now though.
According to the FAQ on the cynthcart site, cynthcart 2.0 uses the second sid at $D420 (same as kerberos cart). So If I understand correctly, it's the cynthcart 1.2 that will break. So really, just re-wire the sid2sid to be at $D420 and everything will work besides cynthcart 1.2. As for where to wire the SID2SID, no idea.
Just checked the source code for cynthcart 1.2.4 and looks like the Address for SID2 is saved on line 26 in cynth_vars.asm.
SID1 equ $D400
SID2 equ $DE00
Could always try to update the address to what you need for SID2 and recompile.
I checked the download link for cynthcart version 2. It opened a page of text with blocks. Is that the disk image or something? Not sure what I'm seeing.
I could not do anything with code unless it was messing it up. Computers...sigh.
I need to use sid number 2 at $DE00 for mssiah. I need to make this sid switchable to $D420 for stuff on kerberos cart. Sid wizard has a two sid version on there. And a lot of sids use $D420.
It looks like switchable sid registers are done deeper inside the machine, and requires using one of these dual 1 of 4 decoder/demultiplexer chips to make the mpu send ttl signals to pin 8 on the sid...I think...
Everything about getting,finding out what's working or not, and learning to use a c64 has been a bad trip. This seems to be the next chapter of my saga.
If anyone is looking for the answer to a mouse for mssiah, I found it in the micromys v4. U just pop it open and pull a jumper and it boots in c64 mode. You use any old ps/2 mouse you like.
There's a new sid symphony II pcb/cart. The ebay page says you can put the 2nd sid at $Dx00/20/40/60. So I hope that means this can do it? CAN you address the second SID to $D400, $D420, and $D500 with this in the cartridge port?
At least you could put in a sid2sid board at $DE00 and this pcb with a third sid at $DF00 and then use the three sid version of sid wizard assigned to those addresses and have a pretty easy hardware solution to utilize it. So that's pretty freaking cool.
He also has a new cynthcart version out and says there's going to be a midi adapter out in june. I don't know where the software looks for the second sid though..
Surely it'd be easier to software patch the tools you want to use than do it in hardware? Sid Wizard has that built-in (press f7) , I've done a bit of code to select SIDs for Goat tracker 2.x exports if that's useful. (used in Jellica's musicdisk) Dunno about synthcart, but anyway patching these drivers a lot of the time is just searching for $D4 in a monitor, noting the addresses and then writing a little bit of code to change them before the program runs. Fairly trivial, though any new software should really have it built-in at this point.
Could be, 4mat... I know jack squat about code. I do need to make an effort to learn some. At some point, I will jump in software end of the pool. Any pointers on the best/easiest entry points to coding that will help me? I have collected a few books, advanced machine language, assembly, and programmers reference guide for c64. But, I've barely skimmed through those...
But I come from the hardware side of music, and I love modding electronics. And at some point, you have to have 2 to 3 sids hooked up in a machine if u want to hear dual, or triple sid software sing out of a c64. Sid2sid is easy enough to make two, plus another In this cart has to be the easiest way to put in three without making ur own perf/pcb...
I've just started in with a c64 in the last 4 months. Trackers too. So, there's been a lot of googling and tracking down leads, discovery, and hair pulling trying to sort it all out. It's worth it when I get to make noise though.
Does anyone know if u can get the computer to see a sid in the cart slot and address it to $D420 & $D500? I understand the dualSID has a logic chip to set up the parameters and then u wire it to the kernal rom and it spits out the right address which u wire to the sid and then it exists at these addresses. Can that happen with this from the cart slot too?
I wish MSSIAH never ran with those stupid addresses. The reason SID2SID is made the way it is is laziness: hacking in two chips this way is a no brainer because it needs no decoding, but $DE00 and $DF00 are BAD addresses because they CONFLICT with freezer and other cartridges. Really a stupid move and one more reason why MSSIAH sucks balls.
I don't understand why you say that "kerberos uses the second SID at D420". Kerberos doesn't use the SID at all, if you refer to any of the software in it that do use it, it would be nice to know which. SIDWizard lets you choose whatever addresses you want. Are you referring to Cynthcart?
My advice: throw the SID2SID board to the garbage where it belongs, and get Vanessa's Symphony II or her Dual SID board: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa … jects.html
Last edited by akira^8GB (Jun 3, 2016 2:43 pm)
Yes Agreed. 4 months in, I'm still figuring it out. Mssiah is limited in ways, it is what it is. All things are.
Yeah, I meant cynthcart on kerberos. The cart itself doesn't use the sid, but the cynthcart software is looking for second sid at $D420. The cart accesses $DE00 $DF00 for midi and memory. I saw in sid wizard that I can set addresses for extra sids. That's when I saw this guys new cynthcart and sid symphony II, which led me to wondering about this and my sid2sid as a very easy way to put three sids In a c64 and use sid wizard with them.
This is vanessas design, but not the latest version, which gave me some other questions, because of this page... http:rga24.blogspot.com/2012/01reengineering-alee650s-sid-symphony-ii.html?m=1 when u compare pics, it looks like the transistor is backwards, so you'd probably have to do a bit of surgery to the board...
The one thing that sid2sid has over the dualSID and vanessas board, you can order it and have it shipped to you. The others you have to get a pcb made by someone else, or try to build it yourself.
What I originally wanted to do was get six note polyphony in cynthcart. V1.2 doesn't support it, I guess. Nor does It have any arp presets. Boo. I do get both sids though, and it is a HUGE sound improvement. So, I tried the cynthcart in my kerberos cart. This is how I fell down the rabitt hole...
I still would like to play cynthcart with six voices via midi. This new version of cythcart supports it... I wish it had a midi port already in the cart. The seller said a datel midi interface will be out soon. And then you'll need a cartridge port xpander to plug in cynthcart and the midi interface. In which case you would need an internal dual sid board, and not this sid cart? Maybe the xpander supports several carts..?
But then I saw the possibility of three sids with this sid symphony II and got side tracked about three sids at once!
There Is the appeal of the limitations of hardware. But, more is more, and sometimes that's what you want.
The cart accesses $DE00 $DF00 for midi and memory.
And here is why MSSIAH and SID2SID fucking suck, if you have a SID2SID board, populated, your DE00 SID is conflicting with Kerberos, so you might run into many issues.
SID2SID is garbage. I made my own SID board. It isn't hard. You said you were into electronics and modifications, so why would you not just get what's needed and build your own, proper board? Relying on a pre-made solution created by a lazy person that half-ased the effort, is not a great option in my book.
The seller said a datel midi interface will be out soon. And then you'll need a cartridge port xpander to plug in cynthcart and the midi interface.
No. DATEL interfaces go in the user port I think. Not sure though because I never seen one in the flesh.
You'd need an expander if you ran Kerberos and Cynthcart. And yest hat's the point of the expander, to support many cartridges at once.
BUT, problem again, this works ONLY if the addresses don't conflict.
You need to be sure that your particular combination of hardware doesn't have overlapping addresses.
In your current setup already, if you put a Kerberos cartridge, your internal second SID is conflicting with it.
Oh and before I forget, one extra note on adding SIDs: they're power hungry, and the more you add, the more strain you can put on the C64 power supply. Knowng that a lot of C64 power supplies are absolute garbage and can kill your computer, I'd be wary of how many I add while using a standard power brick.
Last edited by akira^8GB (Jun 3, 2016 6:19 pm)
Good stuff. I thought that would be a bad thing too. I only use my kerberos cart in a single sid 64c. And ...laziness. the first rule. it's easier to do nothing than to do anything. I'm still trying to put it all together.
The guy said soon, so hopefully there will be some of those midi interfaces available. His ebay listing says the sid cart is cool with cynthcart64.
Good call on current draw. Thanks. I've seen a power supply with extra amperage.
Sometimes ideas are only good ideas...