djDarkX
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Augustus Blackheart wrote:

You can already do ADSR envelopes with SNESMOD.  Also, KungFuFurby added Pitchmod and Noise Generation to it.  It's in this thread (Page 6)

Apparently not.  I checked several times with different options and every time I opened a converted SPC into SPCTool, it would show that all instruments were Direct Gain.  Unless you know of some secret that I don't. lol

I saw that post.  I have yet to add those functions in with what he provided, but I still don't see any commands or ways to set up ADSR.  Using instrument envelopes doesn't do that, just controls gain.  Mind you, I'm using the 2009 version, slightly modified to "fix" FIR filter values beyond the 127/-128 that were coded into it, which didn't seem to work all that well anyway.

Augustus Blackheart
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Ballard, Washington
djDarkX wrote:
Augustus Blackheart wrote:

You can already do ADSR envelopes with SNESMOD.  Also, KungFuFurby added Pitchmod and Noise Generation to it.  It's in this thread (Page 6)

Apparently not.  I checked several times with different options and every time I opened a converted SPC into SPCTool, it would show that all instruments were Direct Gain.  Unless you know of some secret that I don't. lol

I saw that post.  I have yet to add those functions in with what he provided, but I still don't see any commands or ways to set up ADSR.  Using instrument envelopes doesn't do that, just controls gain.  Mind you, I'm using the 2009 version, slightly modified to "fix" FIR filter values beyond the 127/-128 that were coded into it, which didn't seem to work all that well anyway.

You're right.  I had forgotten about ADSR and Direct Gain. ADSR would be easy to implement in smconv. According to Bregalad it would also make very short attack or decay possible so it's probably worth implementing.

edit: added info obtained from Bregalad.

Last edited by Augustus Blackheart (Jun 2, 2015 7:31 pm)

djDarkX
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Yeah.  I can't wait until their done with it.  It's gonna be great!

cTrix
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Australia

An interesting experiment with single waveform samples on the SNES :-)  Checking tuning issues for short samples and also Ferris been optimising play routine so it plays more consistently.

Now have multiple test units / revisions + NTSC for proper testing.  Next stage a-happening.  Will keep you updated in the new year!

djDarkX
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omg, yes.  It's happening, it's sexy and I personally can't wait for this!

MicroD
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Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
cTrix wrote:

An interesting experiment...

This is seriously some fantastic work you're doing.

Glitch_King
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Kingdom of Glitches

anything new??

The One Electronic
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Detroit

I really hope this comes out some day...

werose
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Egypt

nice

Tao
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infodrive wrote:

Onkgaku Tskuru Kanadeeru is a hilarious one that Snesei and I found randomly at a gamestore near us. It's worth checking out if you're into composing on scrolls. Limited sound bank, but it's waaaaaaay better than Mario Paint.

Ongaku Tskuru: Kanadeeru

It even has a mixer with pan, echo fx, and levels as well as muting and soloing. Pretty good for a cartridge designed to write your own music to export to an rpg they made.

Guess that's why I've bought 2 copies of it.


This is what I have been looking for! Thanx for the tips! smile

jefftheworld
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Tao wrote:
infodrive wrote:

Onkgaku Tskuru Kanadeeru is a hilarious one that Snesei and I found randomly at a gamestore near us. It's worth checking out if you're into composing on scrolls. Limited sound bank, but it's waaaaaaay better than Mario Paint.

Ongaku Tskuru: Kanadeeru

It even has a mixer with pan, echo fx, and levels as well as muting and soloing. Pretty good for a cartridge designed to write your own music to export to an rpg they made.

Guess that's why I've bought 2 copies of it.


This is what I have been looking for! Thanx for the tips! smile

I've got a copy of it. It's interesting but perhaps a bit awkward to compose in.

djDarkX
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It's a shame we don't have any updates from cTrix on the SNES Sequencer (I know him and Ferris are really busy), but I ended up finding the updated version of SNESMOD on nesdev being worked on by Augustus Blackheart and, I think, KungFuFurby (not so sure on his involvement), but the clicks and pops were still there.  I did find, however, an alternative solution.  It takes a little bit more finagling and it does involve a little bit more work and access to a DAW and the C700 VST, but XMSNES works pretty well.  It still uses Direct Gain like SNESMOD, but there's not clicking and popping.  The way to set up echo/FIR is by following the instructions in the text file provided, but it leaves out some crucial info.

00-7F => 0 ~ 127 (positive values)
80-FF => -128 ~ -1 (negative values)

The XMSNES manual shows that the coefficients in instrument names spaces is essentially this:

>//7F00000000000000430

Broken down, it's:
> (read)
// = Echo Vol L/R (check C700 VST to change these values properly)
7F00000000000000 = c0 ~ c7 (FIR filter values; check above)
4 = Echo Delay (in hex)
30 = Echo Feedback (in hex)

In order to get a good gauge on how the echo with FIR filter will sound with your music, you can test out values in C700 VST and then simply copy the value (it has a button for that at the very bottom of the GUI) and paste it into your music.  Set your echo to enabled using E03 and E01 for the channels you want it turned on for.  The great thing is that it supports dynamic echo channel switching off or on.  The new SNESMOD does as well, so that's a great thing.  Two of the major things XMSNES lacks that the new SNESMOD has is Pitch Modulation and Noise Generation as well as Global Volume for your music.  It will always be a value of 7F (127) even if you set the volume via Gxx in your XM module.  Best way to control volume is by playing with your instrument volumes and the actual sample amplitude.

I'm personally waiting for SNESMOD to get ADSR envelopes and click/pop-less playback, but until then, I'll use XMSNES for the cleaner audio.  Although, if you want better features, use the updated SNESMOD.  Still highly recommended.

Note:
The XMSNES version I linked is older than the one found on Github, but it seems to be about the same in functionality, so I'm just linking the one I'm using that has great results.  Also, if you're going to tweak a piece using XMSNES, be sure to delete the generated SPC before regenerating. Seems the program has an issue with replacing the file...I don't know why.  I just use a BAT file to delete the SPC and then have the program recreate the SPC.

Augustus Blackheart
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Ballard, Washington
djDarkX wrote:

I ended up finding the updated version of SNESMOD on nesdev being worked on by Augustus Blackheart and, I think, KungFuFurby (not so sure on his involvement), but the clicks and pops were still there.

Do you have some examples of things you've tried that click and pop in SNESMod but not in XMSNES?  I've had clicks and pops with certain samples* but when I replaced those specific samples the playback sounded fine.

*I haven't done much testing as to *why* this happens with certain samples.

djDarkX
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I actually tried various samples and always had the clicks and pops with SNESMod.  As I said, the sound of them was reduced when I made them have a lower amplitude, but they were still there.  However, in XMSNES, with all the samples tested, nothing.  And it sounds like the clicks and pops are there at the very start of the sample playback and during release or at the end of release.

Not sure what XMSNES does differently, but I found it odd because a quick glance at the source of both SNESMod and XMSNES suggested that they both use the same drivers.  Mind you, again, quick glance.  Could very well be wrong.

Augustus Blackheart
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Ballard, Washington
djDarkX wrote:

I actually tried various samples and always had the clicks and pops with SNESMod.  As I said, the sound of them was reduced when I made them have a lower amplitude, but they were still there.  However, in XMSNES, with all the samples tested, nothing.  And it sounds like the clicks and pops are there at the very start of the sample playback and during release or at the end of release.

Not sure what XMSNES does differently, but I found it odd because a quick glance at the source of both SNESMod and XMSNES suggested that they both use the same drivers.  Mind you, again, quick glance.  Could very well be wrong.

Both drivers were written by Mukunda so I wouldn't be surprised, although XMSNES had more features implemented.

I went through some older songs I had and found some that had clicks and pops*. In one case the song had pops in both SNESMod and XMSNES until I lowered the amplitude. Then the pops were reduced slightly in SNESMod and completely gone in XMSNES.  I changed the way gain is handled in SNESMod but wasn't able to reduce the clicks and pops very much. At least not yet. I haven't looked at how gain is being handled in XMSNES yet.

On the other hand, I have done plenty of songs with little to no crackles or pops such as this song.

*Certainly possible that all of the songs using SNESMod have such issues and some are more noticeable than others.

djDarkX
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Interesting.  Also, I actually thought SNESMod, your version, had more features.  Hahaa.

As for the gain issue, that may be it.  I personally have no experienced any issues with clicks and pops in audio using XMSNES at all, but I also only worked with it using the reduced amplitude samples.  I think that was the point I wanted to make when I made my last post, but I think I was kind of distracted, so my mind wasn't exactly clear.  Still, glad you were able to interpret what I was getting at. lol

Still though, the song you linked, I didn't really hear any issues with it, so not sure why most music made with SNESMod has the clicks and pops in it while this one didn't.  Guess it was the effects were used or how the samples were handled.  Either way, good to know.

Glad SNESMod is still getting love.  It was my first adventure into making SNES music. big_smile