Bizcochitos
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Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum and I'm introducing myself into the lsdj-making music with the game boy thing. (I'm sorry for my English, I'm Spanish actually...)

Here's my problem: I don't really know how flash cartridges work, I haven't found anything about it after some research and I'd like to buy a flash cart that works with LSDJ but also with some game boy games. (Only GB games, not gbc).
I've seen that usb 64m smart card doesn't support multiple saves, does that mean I can only have one song on lsdj at a time? I found that BennVenn has released a "El cheapo SD flash cart" that can support multiple save files... but I haven't found a single guide that explains how to get the roms in the sd and make them work...

My question is: What is the best decission to make music out of the gb? El cheapo or Usb 64m? And if el cheapo is a better idea, does anyone have a tutorial that explains how to make things work(put roms into the cart, manage save files...)? I'm a little bit lost and I'd like to buy the best option.

I'm sorry If this isn't the right forum to ask this questions. Thanks for reading!

Z H E

Vault Kid
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I don' really know about the BennVenn but I can recommand the usb 64m smart card.
That is has only one saves means that you can't have a LSDJ and a Pokemon Savefile on the Cardridge, while having both Gamesfiles on the Cardridge is supported. A Savefile contains all of your Songs in LSDJ, of course you can have multiple songs in it. smile
For example having LSDJ (using the savespace) and an game like Battletoads, which dosn't saves anything on the Cardridge is possible without problems.

unexpectedbowtie
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Glasgow, Scotland.
Bizcochitos wrote:

I've seen that usb 64m smart card doesn't support multiple saves, does that mean I can only have one song on lsdj at a time? I found that BennVenn has released a "El cheapo SD flash cart" that can support multiple save files... but I haven't found a single guide that explains how to get the roms in the sd and make them work...

My question is: What is the best decission to make music out of the gb?

As far as I recall, the EMS USB 64 carts do not support multiple .sav files. By that, it means that even though you can load two separate ROMs onto the cart's different pages (i.e. LSDJ on one 'side', and Pokemon Gold or something on the other), you couldn't save your LSDJ tracks, then flip over to Pokemon Gold to continue on from a previous game.

Supporting multiple .sav files at once is not the same thing as multiple LSDJ songs. So, on one .sav file you can generally have a number of LSDJ tracks saved, no problem.

There are very few carts that support multiple .sav files I believe. The Everdrive does support multiple '.sav files', but... there's a caveat, in that with LSDJ, you can only have one song saved at the time (because of the architecture, that I don't fully understand).

I'm not familiar with the El Cheapo card enough to comment, but I can say that the EMS USB cart is perfectly fine and capable for writing and managing songs. I have three of them, and they are great. The software has been a pain historically (as in, getting the ROMS onto the cart), but that's been addressed recently by some clever people in the CMO community... http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/19036 … x-windows/

Personally, I use an Everdrive for games, and EMS 64 carts for music, with LSDJ on one side, and MGB (which doesn't need a .sav file), on the other.

urbster1
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Naptown

I've used an EMS cart and it works well with LSDJ. That being said here is some more info.

I would like to link to the El Cheapo SD FAQ as it probably does a better job of explaining how it works, but I will do my best to explain it here.

The El Cheapo SD works very well, and is very easy to use. The SD card is removable, so you simply use any SD card reader to read/write with a computer, and place the ROMs and SAVs you want to use on the SD card. When you use it on the Game Boy, there are menus for manually loading and saving your ROMs and SAVs. Any time you decide to play a new game, you need to load the ROM for that game from the SD card to the cartridge memory, and also load the SAV from the SD card to the cartridge memory. If you want to use a new SAV file, you have to create it on the SD card first (you cannot create a new SAV file on the Game Boy itself), so if you have 3 games you want to rotate between playing, you would need to load each game and 3 SAVs, one for each game, onto the SD card. (Unless it is a game like Battletoads or Tetris that does not do any saving.) Then you would use the included menu to load the ROM you want to play to the cart, and then use the SAV menu to load the SAV you want to use to the cart. While you are playing that game, you don't need to use the menu - it works just like a regular Game Boy game. But before loading the next game, you would then need to save the SAV back to the SD card from the cart. This might be confusing to read, but it will make sense once you start using the cart if you choose to.

The biggest advantages are that the El Cheapo SD holds thousands of SAVs (and games), whereas the EMS cart can only hold 1 SAV and a few other games (there is a menu to support multiple SAVs but it does not work with LSDJ). The El Cheapo SD has the advantage of backing up easily to a computer (just copy the SAV files from the SD card), whereas the EMS cart requires certain software (either the official program which requires a lot of work to get the drivers to work, or the new ems-qart program) in order to back up to a computer.

It may be worth noting that some people have reported the El Cheapo SD might use a little more power so you may end up with a little bit shorter battery life. They are also currently sold out (edit: see below), so there will be a waiting time before they are available again (sometime January 2017).

I realize that is a lot of info so feel free to ask any more questions you might have. Hope this helps!

Last edited by urbster1 (Dec 8, 2016 8:56 pm)

unexpectedbowtie
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Glasgow, Scotland.
urbster1 wrote:

They are also currently sold out, so there will be a waiting time before they are available again (sometime January 2017).

In stock at Kitsch I think?

http://store.kitsch-bent.com/product/el … 6-bennvenn

urbster1
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Naptown

yes, you're right - that's the older v1.6 that only supports ROMS up to 1MByte. versions 1.8 or newer support ROMS up to 4MByte. but you also reminded me that nonfinite has them in stock as well, although he doesn't specify which version

unexpectedbowtie
Offline
Glasgow, Scotland.
urbster1 wrote:

yes, you're right - that's the older v1.6 that only supports ROMS up to 1MByte. versions 1.8 or newer support ROMS up to 4MByte. but you also reminded me that nonfinite has them in stock as well, although he doesn't specify which version

Ah, awesome! I've never used one before, so I think I'll hold off for version 1.8 before trying them out. Cheers smile

urbster1
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Naptown

no problem. I know many people are waiting for v2.0 to be released which will have RTC support for pokemon crystal etc.

unexpectedbowtie
Offline
Glasgow, Scotland.
urbster1 wrote:

no problem. I know many people are waiting for v2.0 to be released which will have RTC support for pokemon crystal etc.

Being able to load sav files from the Game Boy itself would be awesome. The blank save files business seems like a bit of a faff though. Hopefully that might change as well. I'll have a read...

Tronimal
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Wuppertal, Germany
Bizcochitos wrote:

Here's my problem: I don't really know how flash cartridges work, I haven't found anything about it after some research and I'd like to buy a flash cart that works with LSDJ but also with some game boy games. (Only GB games, not gbc).

LSDJ and Games at the same time on one cartridge?
Then El Cheapo SD is your first choice!

Bizcochitos wrote:

I've seen that usb 64m smart card doesn't support multiple saves, does that mean I can only have one song on lsdj at a time?


No, that does mean that you have only one save file, for the whole cart.
So  you can't put two games (or software like LSDJ) onto one cart that have a save funktion.
Because you'll overwrite the save of the second game if you store at the first one.

For LSDJ only that means you can have one version of LSDJ with one save that can hold multiple songs. But don't put something else on the GB USB cartridge.

Bizcochitos wrote:

I found that BennVenn has released a "El cheapo SD flash cart" that can support multiple save files... but I haven't found a single guide that explains how to get the roms in the sd and make them work...

Not only multiple sav files, also multiple ROMs. That means many games and/or different versions of LSDJ on one cartridge at the same time! wink
It's all stored on a micro sd cart, should be hard to get stuff onto and off from it! wink

Bizcochitos wrote:

My question is: What is the best decission to make music out of the gb? El cheapo or Usb 64m? And if el cheapo is a better idea, does anyone have a tutorial that explains how to make things work(put roms into the cart, manage save files...)? I'm a little bit lost and I'd like to buy the best option.

Both will work, as written above. If you want to hold games on the cart at the same time go for El Cheapo SD.
If not, it doesn't really matter. It might be a decision of trust to SD Cards then...

Tronimal
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Wuppertal, Germany
unexpectedbowtie wrote:

There are very few carts that support multiple .sav files I believe. The Everdrive does support multiple '.sav files', but... there's a caveat, in that with LSDJ, you can only have one song saved at the time (because of the architecture, that I don't fully understand).

LSDJ (and the Game Boy Camera for example) uses 128KByte sav Files.
Everdrive only supports 32 or 64 KB. That's the whole thing. It can't handle the sav!

unexpectedbowtie wrote:

I'm not familiar with the El Cheapo card enough to comment, but I can say that the EMS USB cart is perfectly fine and capable for writing and managing songs. I have three of them, and they are great.

Agreed. I use them myself.
But don't forget that you can hold multiple ROMs on El Cheapo SD as well.
So you could run many different versions of LSDJ. This is really interesting if you do work a lot with customs samples!
Or if you want to use old and new versions because of the difference in sample playback!

unexpectedbowtie
Offline
Glasgow, Scotland.
Tronimal wrote:

LSDJ (and the Game Boy Camera for example) uses 128KByte sav Files.
Everdrive only supports 32 or 64 KB. That's the whole thing. It can't handle the sav!

Aha, that's it. Thanks for the explanation smile

Tronimal wrote:


But don't forget that you can hold multiple ROMs on El Cheapo SD as well.
So you could run many different versions of LSDJ. This is really interesting if you do work a lot with customs samples!
Or if you want to use old and new versions because of the difference in sample playback!

That sounds very tempting. I've got an Everdrive and a bunch of EMS carts, but I might get an El Cheapo SD in the next batch. With the empty save files... how does that work? Every time you put a ROM on, you need to create an empty sav file as well, correct? Anything else to watch out for? And... Can you load different savs for the same ROM, or is it always tied to one sav?

Tronimal
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Wuppertal, Germany
unexpectedbowtie wrote:

With the empty save files... how does that work? Every time you put a ROM on, you need to create an empty sav file as well, correct?

I think so, yes.
Or name an old SAV that way that it will depend to the ROM. wink

unexpectedbowtie wrote:

Anything else to watch out for?

I think it's always good to rename the ROMs. So that you don't overwrite something else because of the same name!

unexpectedbowtie wrote:

And... Can you load different savs for the same ROM, or is it always tied to one sav?

I'm not sure.
But if it works with only one sav, just double the ROM and rename it, like: LSDJ 4.9.1_1 and LSDJ 4.9.1_2. Same ROM with two diffrent names should handle this problem. (If it even exists!)

Last edited by Tronimal (Dec 9, 2016 11:51 am)

Bizcochitos
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urbster1 wrote:

I would like to link to the El Cheapo SD FAQ as it probably does a better job of explaining how it works, but I will do my best to explain it here.... Hope this helps!

Well that was a pretty good explanation and I feel like that's the cartridge that suits my needs the most! Thank you a lot. I was going to buy one of those but seems like sending it to Spain from kitsch bent  will take forever... I've seen another Spanish web that sells the ems 64m so I'll make my decission.

Thanks a lot for all the replies, I didn't really spect so many! . I've read all of them and I've learned quite a lot! I'll keep posting when I get the cart

unexpectedbowtie
Offline
Glasgow, Scotland.

Thanks Tronimal!

urbster1
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Naptown
unexpectedbowtie wrote:

With the empty save files... how does that work? Every time you put a ROM on, you need to create an empty sav file as well, correct?

Yes, BennVenn includes blank 32k and 128k SAV files on his website so you can download those and copy them to the cart, as many times as you need to.

The only exception is for games like Tetris, Battletoads, Mega Man, and ROMs like mGB, etc. which do not save - then there is no SAV file needed.

unexpectedbowtie wrote:

Anything else to watch out for?

Actually, this is listed on the FAQ, but every once in a while you might find a ROM that doesn't quite function correctly due to memory mapping. In that case you'll have to patch the ROM before it plays. BennVenn says he will make those patches available in the near future. Right now I'm waiting on Kirby Pinball... yikes

unexpectedbowtie wrote:

And... Can you load different savs for the same ROM, or is it always tied to one sav?

Yes, you can load any number of SAVs for any ROM. Which is cool for LSDJ since you can have multiple projects going on at once, or load a friend's SAV to collaborate, etc. Just remember to save your SAV back to the SD card first before loading the next one!

Last edited by urbster1 (Dec 9, 2016 1:52 pm)