rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

I have a problem... but since a lot of you people here are actively performing live, maybe somebody here can help me out.
I would also to apologize for this post being quite lenghty...

I need to buy a new computer, since my actual system (Dell XPS m1330) does not work (keeps on freezing and has a lot of problems with the audio interface. But the question is, what should I buy? I could get a regular self-made PC, or some sort of laptop but it's all really confusing.
To help you in helping me, here's what I have and what I need:
I work mostly with hardware gear (C64, mini YM synth, Shruti-1, Blofeld, Bass Station and others), but I also like to use samples (I use Shortcircuit 2 a lot!) and the occasional softsynth (well actually I have bought some I really love, like the XILS 3). I have two interfaces: a Presonus Firebox and an E-mu 0404 usb, the first one I don't currently use, because on the Dell it wouldn't work at all. I have a little home studio where I write and record tracks, and right now I'm mainly doing stuff for films and theatre, so nothing live. But I'm currently starting to work with other people to do some live stuff, since I'm kind of fed up of making music alone... you know... feels like masturbating, music should be social and live!
So I'm working on some tracks to perform live, and have added a nocturn and a launchpad to my setup (and consider getting Renoise for that). Sometimes I have to take my gear to a friend, be it to rehearse or to write a new track.
I have always worked on windows, because that was the cheapest solution for me, and somehow I've always sticked to that, but I wouldn't mind a change, although that would mean that some plugins I've bought over the years would not work anymore...

Now I see the following options:
buy a pro audio PC in rack format  (there's an Italian company that makes good ones) and slam it into a 19" rack case, maybe together with the bass station and some other rack-mountable gear I have. I would have a portable PC while having desktop grade performance, the only problem is I would have to carry also the monitor around, and it's one more heavy thing to lift. In this case I could even use a PCI audio interface, and forget about all the problems you have with external ones... would cost me about 1300€
Another possible solution would be a laptop, but nearly 90% of today's laptops suck. They have dodgy firewire chipsets and lousy DPC latency. Even the Macbook pros, which used to be the best you could get, now start to have problems...

So I could either get a used MBP or buy a pro audio laptop from ADK. the first would be the cheaper solution (about 800€), but how long can I go on with a computer which is already 3 years old? The second one seems like a good choice, but I'd have to get it from the US, and I'm in Italy, means expensive shipping and some waiting... but at least I have a computer that was built to be a DAW! On the bad side, the cheapest costs 1500€ if I include shipping and 20% VAT...

The last option is to just assemble a computer in a regular case myself as I've always done, and drag that one around... 500-600€ and I can get a good system up and running!

The big question is: do I really need a laptop, or do I have to carry around enough stuff anyway so that a box more or less does not really matter? Performance and Value wise I'd go for a desktop PC all the time! But then I wouldn't drag all the gear to a gig anyway... maybe just the little boxes and the blofeld... but that's just my imagination here, I don't have all that giggin experience...

What do you think would fit me best?
thanks a lot!
Hannes

Trash80
Offline
Los Angeles

MBP. I used several firewire audio devices without issue, including Presonus. Lately though I've just been using the built in optical output and let something else handle the D/A conversion, its nice to have that option.
I also compose orchestral pieces for theatre. Meeting with the director somewhere random or other artists in their rehearsal space to make changes on the fly is pretty handy. I can't see working professionally or personally without a decent laptop.

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

I can't see working professionally or personally without a decent laptop.

hmm you have a point there...

but would you get a new MBP? I heard many people say that since they switched from TI to Agere for the firewire there are often problems with FW interfaces. And USB has always been a bit dodgy on the Apples, at least for my experience. In the studio where I work we have only Macs btw.

btw. thanks for the reply!

Trash80
Offline
Los Angeles

Well I can't speak forthe newer models as I have the last version before the unibody. I've been waiting for a substantial update to cpu before spending the cash. I've not had many issues on either Mac or PC for USB. I've had a few devices- mainly use NI audio8 for USB now. I have the Presonus Firepod and a Apogee Ensemble, Windows blows with Firewire because they intentionally limited the speed, I can't even get FW400 speeds. Either way I've found that using both FW drives & FW audio devices on the same bus cause wacky issues. Like I said though... I use the internal card's optical out for working on music (internal optical to Ensemble optical in), and when I need to record I use FW.

Yes internal cards are still better, but portability for me is so much more important that its worth the little issues. I guess that is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Ogrim
Offline
Westcoast Norway

Regarding your laptop freezing on you, might it have something to do with overheating? Have you cleaned out the CPU-fan properly? I had problems with this, and my laptop seemed dust free. It was not. Underneath a piece of tape sealing the airflow from the CPU-fan and the heatsink, I found unholy amounts of dust. Like this

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

Windows blows with Firewire because they intentionally limited the speed

didn't know that... but somehow it doesn't surprise me... is it still like that on 7?

I guess that is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Of course... it's just that the last time I was on a stage, we had casio samplers, ADAT's and Atari STs with Logic Notator... I lack the experience with modern tech to really judge this right now, but I want to think ahead, so I don't have to spend money twice...

Decktonic
Offline
Westfield, NJ

I have to recommend the unibody Macbook Pro. I have the 15" model and besides it being a great computer for audio work, it's also VERY STURDY. The all-aluminum body can take a pounding. You could probably drop it and it would still work. I don't know how important this is for you but for me it's a big deal since I use it for my dayjob as well as DJing and I need to know that it will hold up. I won't go back to plastic laptops now.

p.s. you can install Windows on it using Boot Camp if you really need Windows support.

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy
Ogrim wrote:

Regarding your laptop freezing on you, might it have something to do with overheating? Have you cleaned out the CPU-fan properly? I had problems with this, and my laptop seemed dust free. It was not. Underneath a piece of tape sealing the airflow from the CPU-fan and the heatsink, I found unholy amounts of dust. Like this

that might be worth investigating indeed...
thought the issue seems a bit more complex than that, I have explained the whole thing quite in detail here:
http://forums.creative.com/t5/Professio … d-p/559770 (Caution, it's quite a long text!)

Decktonic wrote:

I don't know how important this is for you but for me it's a big deal since I use it for my dayjob as well as DJing and I need to know that it will hold up. I won't go back to plastic laptops now.

Well it's important, or better... it's always better to have a sturdy laptop, you never know what can happen in a live situation (that much I know)

Last edited by rumpelfilter (Jul 31, 2010 6:47 pm)

arfink
Offline
Minneapolis

I'm not much for gigging, but from my experience with on-the-road computing and Lan partying, I'd say there isn't much reason not to do a desktop machine. I'd say build inside of a tough old case you don't care if it gets beat up, and if you want to have some convenience just bolt a strap handle on the top. For gigging, I suggest getting a small 10 or 12 inch VGA LCD and a keyboard with a touchpad built in. Conect them to the PC and zip tie their cables together at regular intervals to make them less unruly and easier to transport. Add velcro to the back of the kayboard and back of the LCD panel and you can make it very easy to transport. Just grab the tower's handle in one hand, the pigtail of the monitor/keyboard wad in the other hand, and away you go. Everything else can just be transported normally and plugged in when you get there.

Last edited by arfink (Jul 31, 2010 6:54 pm)

Trash80
Offline
Los Angeles
rumpelfilter wrote:

that might be worth investigating indeed...
thought the issue seems a bit more complex than that, I have explained the whole thing quite in detail here:
http://forums.creative.com/t5/Professio … d-p/559770 (Caution, it's quite a long text!)

1. Does it happen when you use your internal card?
2. If it does then it could be any number of things... including system processes, other processes, faulty ram or harddrive or other hardware related issues.
3. If it doesn't, unplug all other usb devices that are not required to repeat the operation.
4. If you are using ASIO, try using directx or whatever, if it doesnt happen now you know its something with the lowlevel asio driver freaking out.
5. If it still happens, try using another USB audio device or that presonus, if it still happens, try using XP, or get a mbp. wink
6. if it doesnt, we know its the emu/soundblaster unit, ebay it. smile

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

1. Does it happen when you use your internal card?

no, when I use the internal one everything is fine...

2. If it does then it could be any number of things... including system processes, other processes, faulty ram or harddrive or other hardware related issues.

oh and btw. I only experience these issues when doing audio work. before using it for this, I was using photoshop on this machine and never had a problem.

3. If it doesn't, unplug all other usb devices that are not required to repeat the operation.

tried that... no joy, still crashes.

4. If you are using ASIO, try using directx or whatever, if it doesnt happen now you know its something with the lowlevel asio driver freaking out.

that's a good idea, will try that ASAP!

5. If it still happens, try using another USB audio device or that presonus, if it still happens, try using XP, or get a mbp.

hmm, I had the presonus before, but I was getting a lot of cracks and dropouts due to the bad firewire of the Dell...  I might try the interface in the studio on my Mac pro though... I actually never thought that the problem could be the interface itself...

6. if it doesnt, we know its the emu/soundblaster unit, ebay it.

don't know why... but I think it might come to that... just for the fact that I hate the thing already! Should have bought a Motu hybrid as everybody told me... smile

Analog
Offline
Ciudad de méxico, MX

I'm using a dell laptop, and bought a firewire focusrite LE saffire interface. I never got it working on the stock firewire. the shitty Fw fried. I tried a suggestion from a friend, to use a firewire express card. I bought one which has the TI chipset. I've connected it and it worked fine!.

I went to a lot of trouble with this firewire thing. I'm just saving for a MBP, but i don't know if still they have the 6 pins for firewire on board still. Two year Mac book brings with it, but i'm afraid that i've seen some of them with the same shitty components on the fw chipset; if it's ricoh it would fry. This problem never occurred with firewire video.

My suggestion is for you to go for  the firewire express card, test it on the store, bring your stuff. If it works fine. use it and you're gold.

note: use one with only two ports. Others are shitty.

anyways, i have a mac planned to buy. tongue

hope this helps, dell+firewire=nightmare

EDIT: i'm using linux btw.

Last edited by Analog (Jul 31, 2010 8:19 pm)

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

4. If you are using ASIO, try using directx or whatever, if it doesnt happen now you know its something with the lowlevel asio driver freaking out.

just tried that. laptop freezed. hmm... maybe a memory test could be useful...

My suggestion is for you to go for  the firewire express card, test it on the store, bring your stuff. If it works fine. use it and you're gold.

tried that. have bought a FW express card with TI chipset. it's useless since the crappy ricoh chipset controls the express card slow as well... so you don't get around the bottleneck.

EDIT: i'm using linux btw.

I would like to use linux too... but then, half of my software would not run (and I've payed some good money to buy it) and I guess some of my hardware would neither. I've played around with Renoise under Ubuntu on it, and it would run with extremely low latency even on the internal soundcard...

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

latest news: tried the E-mu interface on my desktop computer, runs like a charm, no dropouts, not clicks, and no freezes. And I didn't optimize anything, I only disabled the internal sound card. I had even the browser open and was downloading stuff... the problem must be the laptop...

Analog
Offline
Ciudad de méxico, MX

the funny thing is that i have almost the same laptop, the same shitty ricoh chipset, but the express card fw adapter works like a dream!. I guess that it's a matter of different units. I have read somewhere that  some hardware interfere (i.e. the lan, if you don't use it, turn it off on the bios). -some bus/ irq addressing/ weird techy stuff- weirdness.

And a friend of mine got the same laptop that i have... he was scared to get the fw interface because of my issues. but his m-audio usb interface works perfect on windows xp.

rumpelfilter
Offline
Italy

hmm... might try that thing with the lan, it's actually the only device I didn't disable... thanks!