nickmaynard
Offline
rochester, ny

so, i have a few questions about the NES and how it handles tempo.

i've heard before that if you set famitracker to a tempo of 120 and then play that NSF through an NES with a powerpak, that it will actually play back at a slightly different tempo, like 119.5 or something.

my question is this: does the NES play things back at a consistent tempo? like, if i want to record a song that has guitar and NES, and i record both parts, and then i decide to change the NES track, would it still match up to that guitar track i'd already recorded?

like, if it plays back at a different tempo than the one i set in famitracker, does it always play back consistently at that "incorrect" tempo or does it every vary? does it ever vary while it's playing a song?

i'm getting ready to record a bunch of songs and i want to know if i'll have the option of tweaking the NES tracks after i've recorded other instruments or if the NES tracks need to be set in stone before i do the other instruments. thanks!

Last edited by nickmaynard (Dec 5, 2010 5:37 am)

Shiru
Offline
Russia, Moscow

Tempo on consoles/old computers is derivied from the TV frames frequency, which is of course very consistent (otherwise the TV would not work). The problem is that you can only have tempos with resolution of 1/50 or 1/60 second (PAL/NTSC). These values are rounded, in fact it could be +- fraction of second, depending from console/computer. Exact values for the NES are 50.0070 and 60.0988.

noisewaves
Offline
Michigan

ive never had a problem with this. i have read that there is a very slight variation depending on the speed/tempos you set in famitracker, but as mentioned, these are usually fractions of seconds. ive also read if youre using the Fxx or Dxx effects, this may throw a wrench in frame frequency, but im not exactly sure.

i usually set everything on the NES in stone before I record other instruments just to be safe. are you recording directly from the NES?

nickmaynard
Offline
rochester, ny
noisewaves wrote:

are you recording directly from the NES?

that's the plan right now. is that how you do it?

noisewaves wrote:

i usually set everything on the NES in stone before I record other instruments just to be safe.

i was hoping i could record the live instruments to the NES tracks i have now, and then tweak them after i hear what they sound like. then re-record the finished NES tracks and match them up to what i've recorded.

for what i'm doing, the NES doesn't need to play back at a specific tempo, like 120. i just want it to play back at the SAME tempo each time i record it.

Last edited by nickmaynard (Dec 5, 2010 11:14 am)

neilbaldwin
Offline
WOW MAN!

Shiru's explanation is spot on.

This is why in NTRQ (and Pulsar) I display a BPM figure that the playback is running at instead of allowing you to specify a BPM. This value is pre-calculated and stored inside the code so if NTRQ displays 128.6 BPM then it should be running at exactly that. I did some test using Ableton Live (record a few bars from Pulsar in Live then see what Live computes the tempo to be) and it seemed to be consistent with my calculations.

It's not ideal though.

Of course, it's perfectly possible (to a certain extent) decouple the playback from the frame rate and just play the music back based on a simple counter but this approach is not really compatible with a tool such as NTRQ/Pulsar which requires graphical updates (graphical updates ABSOLUTELY must be in sync with the frame rate because you only have a small window of opportunity at the start of each refresh frame in which to write to the 'screen'). The reason I say this is that if you just wanted to display a static screen, you should be able to have much more fine control over the refresh speed of your audio.

noisewaves
Offline
Michigan
nickmaynard wrote:
noisewaves wrote:

are you recording directly from the NES?

that's the plan right now. is that how you do it?

noisewaves wrote:

i usually set everything on the NES in stone before I record other instruments just to be safe.

i was hoping i could record the live instruments to the NES tracks i have now, and then tweak them after i hear what they sound like. then re-record the finished NES tracks and match them up to what i've recorded.

for what i'm doing, the NES doesn't need to play back at a specific tempo, like 120. i just want it to play back at the SAME tempo each time i record it.


ahhh i see. ive never recorded audio off the actual NES. Its probably just a matter of personal preference, but I dont see the need in adding an extra step when you can export directly to .WAV from famitracker. In my opinion this sounds just as good, and gives me more control of the mixing & eq-ing, because i export each channel seperately and mix it down in whatever DAW I wish (fl studio, abelton, etc...) and THEN add guitars/drums over it.

i have had issues with getting the NES audio to sync with a click track in fl studio now that im thinking about it, its probably something there is a fix for that i havent read up on yet, maybe it will be addressed in this thread?

this way the NES acts as sort of a "click track" because i just have to play along with it.

jefftheworld
Offline
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

The playback inconsistences on the NES are not so huge as to make a major difference in this kind of situation.  I would recommend trying it out once or twice to see of the drift is more than you'd like, but I'd be willing to bet you'll be fine with it the way it is.

Hell, if the drift was too extreme, hould would groups like Anamanaguchi play live with Nintendos?

Last edited by jefftheworld (Dec 5, 2010 7:27 pm)

nickmaynard
Offline
rochester, ny
noisewaves wrote:

ahhh i see. ive never recorded audio off the actual NES. Its probably just a matter of personal preference, but I dont see the need in adding an extra step when you can export directly to .WAV from famitracker. In my opinion this sounds just as good, and gives me more control of the mixing & eq-ing, because i export each channel seperately and mix it down in whatever DAW I wish (fl studio, abelton, etc...) and THEN add guitars/drums over it.

well, i'll probably experiment and try recording the NES directly and comparing that to the famitracker wav's.

noisewaves wrote:

i have had issues with getting the NES audio to sync with a click track in fl studio now that im thinking about it, its probably something there is a fix for that i havent read up on yet, maybe it will be addressed in this thread?

this way the NES acts as sort of a "click track" because i just have to play along with it.

yeah, i would be using the NES as a "click track" for my recording too. it's not important at all that it line up with a click in the recording program. i just want it to play back at the same tempo each time i record it.

noisewaves wrote:

The playback inconsistences on the NES are not so huge as to make a major difference in this kind of situation.  I would recommend trying it out once or twice to see of the drift is more than you'd like, but I'd be willing to bet you'll be fine with it the way it is.

Hell, if the drift was too extreme, hould would groups like Anamanaguchi play live with Nintendos?

yeah, i play live with the NES now too and the tempo never drifts off. but what i'm asking is if i'll be able to modify my nsf's after i've recorded other instruments or not. if i tweak and re-record an NSF, will i be able to just replace the original NSF in my recording, and everything will still match up?

but i think your advice of trying it out a few times is very solid. i definitely will.