Theta_Frost
Offline
Milwaukee, WI
chunter wrote:

Berklee is much more open to ideas such as VGM and DIY music than they were when I attended in the early 90s; when I applied, the admissions board demanded an explanation of what "video game music" means. Perhaps I was the first to write that on their application..

I'm not saying that you can't go from Berklee to chipmusic (or else I wouldn't be talking to you now) but it isn't an obvious or appropriate path, to me. If you principled in Trumpet you'd spend most of your time woodshedding and playing jazz covers. I went as a pianist, and though I learned a ton of harmony theory and treasure the overall experience, the domination of bebop era jazz and extremely technical live performing started to piss me off after three semesters.

From the email correspondence I've had with them I understand that I audition with an instrument/voice but that I should make it clear of my intentions to go into the electronic side of things.  Would I have to principle in an instrument or could I be able to focus on the electronic production?  Berklee seems really ideal to me (besides the price point).


I'll look into USCD!

Last edited by Theta_Frost (Jul 30, 2011 9:49 pm)

chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA
Theta_Frost wrote:

From the email correspondence I've had with them I understand that I audition with an instrument/voice but that I should make it clear of my intentions to go into the electronic side of things.  Would I have to principle in an instrument or could I be able to focus on the electronic production?  Berklee seems really ideal to me (besides the price point).

You must principle in an instrument on their list and if your principle is not piano, you must take or test out of two semesters of Piano.

Also, +1 on the person that said Berklee's synth program is not old enough to have access to vintage analog. At the time, you didn't even get to touch the Waldorf stuff until two years in, and the rest of the synths lab was Roland and Korg junk.  (Early 90s = Roland D series and Korg M and O series, you figure it out wink )

There is/was a major called MP/E (Music Production and Engineering) which I considered briefly, but didn't want to spend half my time at a desk... again, you'll get a lot of lab fees but in retrospect I think I would've gotten more out of that major than Synthesis.  You'll spend a lot of time, at least early on, recording conventional jazz combos, because MP/E's get hit with the tasks of recording Performance majors' projects.

FTR I was a Piano principle and Songwriting (pop music with lyrics) major, choosing business and production classes as most of my electives.  My favorite class in the entire experience was Livingston Taylor's class about performing.

Last edited by chunter (Jul 30, 2011 4:12 am)

kineticturtle
Offline
Matthew Joseph Payne
chunter wrote:

You must principle in an instrument on their list and if your principle is not piano, you must take or test out of two semesters of Piano.

And it shouldn't be any other way. Any music or audio engineering school that doesn't require basic you to attain piano deficiency is doing you a disservice. Accept no substitutes!

boomlinde
Offline
Sweden
kineticturtle wrote:

Any music or audio engineering school that doesn't require basic you to attain piano deficiency is doing you a disservice.

How so? Is there some magic property of piano playing that makes you better at totally unrelated things to the point where not playing it is doing you a disservice? I don't see how being a piano player is going to make any more of a difference in your audio engineering ability than being a guitar player. It's a very arbitrary standpoint.

Last edited by boomlinde (Jul 30, 2011 9:53 am)

chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA

I believe it is the same reason why all Berklee students must take a Music Notation (writing on the staff paper) class in first semester, and they make it very hard to test out. They want people that can write, read, and speak a proverbial "language," and I admit it was the most seful class I took. I had a super-soft mechanical pencil and could write notes on a page in two strokes, more efficiently than the staff printing software.

If you can use QWERTY in place of CDEFG you are part of the way there.

Whenever you bring your music into the company of lots of musicians from different stylistic and cultural backgrounds, you will encounter certain kinds of bigotry against it, some of which you may have never heard of before, for example, faculty from a conservatory that think anything newer than Mozart is shit...

I think that the most important part of choosing a college/university for any reason is to ensure that what you put into the experience is what you will properly get out of the experience. This is not an easy decision.

Last edited by chunter (Jul 30, 2011 12:17 pm)

Kedromelon
Offline
brooklyn

I'm gonna be going to NYU to study music technology

That was really the only school I wanted to go to for that major, if I had decided to go anywhere else I would have just done something with electronics or computers.  NYU's music tech program really gives a good balance between the musical & technical aspects of the subject, I feel.  It is also not limited to audio production, and definitely presents "electronics, music theory, the applications of both".

If you haven't looked into it, I'd highly suggest it... you seem to be looking for something very similar to what I was.
http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/technology/

Last edited by Kedromelon (Jul 30, 2011 1:02 pm)

kineticturtle
Offline
Matthew Joseph Payne
boomlinde wrote:
kineticturtle wrote:

Any music or audio engineering school that doesn't require basic you to attain piano deficiency is doing you a disservice.

How so? Is there some magic property of piano playing that makes you better at totally unrelated things to the point where not playing it is doing you a disservice? I don't see how being a piano player is going to make any more of a difference in your audio engineering ability than being a guitar player. It's a very arbitrary standpoint.

I'm not saying you can't be an audio engineer without knowing how to play piano, I'm just saying that if you're receiving a college degree in audio engineering, they should be teaching you basic piano as part of it.
Off the top of my head, here's a few reasons an audio engineer should know how to read basic music and play basic piano:

1. Translation of frequency spectrum into notational values
2. Ease of communication with musicians in the workplace
3. For a recording engineer, ability to sequence digital parts by ear on a piano keyboard

I could come up with more, but suffice it to say, I doubt you will find a school with a music technology degree that doesn't force some kind of music theory and/or basic piano.

chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA

Perhaps relavent to whomever are arguing, Berklee's piano requirement is for all majors- even MB/M (music business and management,) and everyone has equal access to the rehersal pianos.

Theta_Frost
Offline
Milwaukee, WI
Kedromelon wrote:

I'm gonna be going to NYU to study music technology

That was really the only school I wanted to go to for that major, if I had decided to go anywhere else I would have just done something with electronics or computers.  NYU's music tech program really gives a good balance between the musical & technical aspects of the subject, I feel.  It is also not limited to audio production, and definitely presents "electronics, music theory, the applications of both".

If you haven't looked into it, I'd highly suggest it... you seem to be looking for something very similar to what I was.
http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/technology/


That does look very nice indeed.  However this one (as with many others) don't seem to focus as much on the electronics and circuit design, which I really would like to learn more about.

chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA

Nothing's stopping you from taking a trade class at an alternate school for a semester or over a summer...

wedanced
Offline
San Francisco

UCSC has some interesting classes.

boomlinde
Offline
Sweden
kineticturtle wrote:

1. Translation of frequency spectrum into notational values

I'll assume that this is a contrived of saying that it's useful in acquiring a good sense of pitch. Piano playing has what to do with this? Couldn't you do this with many other instruments? I think fretless string instruments are superior in this regard.

kineticturtle wrote:

2. Ease of communication with musicians in the workplace

How about taking courses in music theory, or, again, whatever instrument you prefer? Even if I positively need to show a chord or two to a keyboard player, it's no big deal without specifically taking a piano course.

kineticturtle wrote:

3. For a recording engineer, ability to sequence digital parts by ear on a piano keyboard

"Sequence digital parts by ear?" You mean, like, putting notes in a piano roll according to what you have in mind? Yes, you totally need to know how to play piano to do that, because the kind of layout where notes are layed out linearly in a bunch of rows from low to high wouldn't really make sense to any other musician...

kineticturtle wrote:

I could come up with more, but suffice it to say, I doubt you will find a school with a music technology degree that doesn't force some kind of music theory and/or basic piano.

While this might be true, I don't really see how it supports what you said.

kineticturtle
Offline
Matthew Joseph Payne

I'm stepping out of this argument. You're welcome to claim victory if you want. My opinion is based on my personal experiences as a technician trained in basic keyboard, and my experiences as a University staff member. I cannot transfer those experiences to you.

Hyperwave
Offline
Concord, CA

Virtually every music major is going to have some piano proficiency. I mean, sure, you don't HAVE to learn it, but it will make things a lot easier. Piano is the standard interface for a huge amount of instruments and music-making tools.

boomlinde
Offline
Sweden

I agree that basic piano understanding can be more or less useful depending on your goals. What really bugs me is the idea that not requiring it is doing you a disservice. I think that grown, thinking people should be allowed some more flexibility. If you are a great guitar player with an excellent sense of harmony aspiring to compose for guitar, the piano courses may simply be a waste of time in attaining that goal.

EDIT: To clarify, I think that picking up a second instrument can be extremely useful, but it shouldn't necessarily be piano.

Last edited by boomlinde (Jul 31, 2011 10:13 pm)

chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA
boomlinde wrote:

EDIT: To clarify, I think that picking up a second instrument can be extremely useful, but it shouldn't necessarily be piano.

I think the point that may be missed here is that there are more great musicians that never attended a university to learn about music than there are that people that go to music school, by far. No, you don't have to know how to play piano to understand theory and composition, but if you're paying $100k for four consecutive years of school, the university has to make sure you can't just test out of all the classes in your major and graduate, right?  There must be 8 semesters worth of material and it must teach ... something. wink

Last edited by chunter (Aug 1, 2011 1:08 am)