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Abandoned on Fire
OrionOrbit wrote:

Thanks for the graceful response but with all due respect you definitely dont "get what theyre talking about". Because if you did, you would do the right thing and pick a designer you like whos willing to do the work and not waste a bunch of peoples time and make multiple losers to your contest.

I understand your bias, given youre the contest holder but  spec work is spec work, no matter if its at an indie scale or a large corporation.

In regards to the "dramatic and silly statement", I think you misunderstood. How often do you hold a contest to pick a doctor? Or a lawyer? The thought of holding a contest to pick a doctor or a lawyer should be equally as ridiculous as picking a designer but sadly its not. The only reason spec work is so common is because everyone with a computer and Photoshop is a designer nowadays, and the margin is so absurdly low that these contests happen only because theres more designers witth spare time than those who dont. So i hope you understand now that crowdsourcing is nothing like what you said.

Theres certainly a flair of arrogance that goes with these contests. The notion that designers should compete over your work is no different to me than tv shows like "the bachelor". Instead of a contest why not just be like hey guys, looking for some artwork, anyone down? Thats much more in touch with the indie scale youre talking about. If you hadnt presented this as a contest I probably wouldve been willing to participate. Your project looks like fun and I'd be personally interested.

You started your contest and theres people interested (unfortunately) so I wouldnt expect you to close it or anything, I just hope some information reached you and maybe you could go about design work differently in the future.

I did misunderstand that statement.  I read it as "graphic designers are the only creative artists abused by spec work".

Also should have said:  I understand their argument but am not sure I agree.

I'm continuing to read thru the material linked from antispec.  I'll definitely be redefining/clarifying the contest rules to match those listed here (Item Two):  https://www.graphicartistsguild.org/res … petitions/

EDIT:  What would be the current market value for a single image redesign of a logo (essentially what this is)?

Last edited by egr (Nov 30, 2011 6:33 pm)

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PDX

Awesome! Thank you for being open-minded, mature and not lashing out. I appreciate your attitude. Best of luck with the contest and now that your abiding by the GAG (terrible acronym. check) guidelines, I might submit a design if I have the time.

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California

Ill do that $hit for you for $50.00 essay. On the sedio homes

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IL, US

I'd say those guidelines are excessive for this situation and could in theory exclude any and all artists who have released on datathrash..

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Abandoned on Fire
e.s.c. wrote:

I'd say those guidelines are excessive for this situation and could in theory exclude any and all artists who have released on datathrash..

Since I'm the sole employee of "Datathrash Recordings" and will be the only person judging the entries I don't believe there will be any conflict of interest.

There are artists (music and graphic) receiving money via sales through Datathrash but they are not on any kind of payroll or contract.

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PDX
e.s.c. wrote:

I'd say those guidelines are excessive for this situation and could in theory exclude any and all artists who have released on datathrash..

Definitely. Thats why they are guidelines, not rules.

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Abandoned on Fire
KeFF wrote:

I might find some time for this smile

I just saw your Radiograffiti logo.  Niiiiiiiiice!

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Turku, FIN
egr wrote:
KeFF wrote:

I might find some time for this smile

I just saw your Radiograffiti logo.  Niiiiiiiiice!

THANKSSS!

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IL, US

I just see nothing wrong with the way you had this set up to begin with. I mean anyone not happy with that could've always just not participated

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PDX
e.s.c. wrote:

I just see nothing wrong with the way you had this set up to begin with. I mean anyone not happy with that could've always just not participated

It goes beyond just not participating. Spec work is bad and its my "moral duty" to inform others of this any time I can, even if it makes me "that guy" or a buzzkill or whatever.

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Abandoned on Fire
e.s.c. wrote:

I just see nothing wrong with the way you had this set up to begin with. I mean anyone not happy with that could've always just not participated

I'm actually much happier with the idea of making it a two step process.  It'll make it much easier to work with the finalists and then winner to really focus on having a rad-as-fuck image.

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New York City

Man, comparing a contest with spec work is a bit out there in my opinion, as a graphic designer who's been working in this for almost 15 years now.
There are contests for everything. EGR means no harm with this, this is not the typical "scumbag wants to get work done for peanuts" case, I think.
I understand your position, Orion, but you need to analyze the situation and I think this case does not need a "spec work" denomination.


egr wrote:
KeFF wrote:

I might find some time for this smile

I just saw your Radiograffiti logo.  Niiiiiiiiice!

YES, that thing is BAD ASS.

Last edited by akira^8GB (Nov 30, 2011 10:52 pm)

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Finland
KeFF wrote:
egr wrote:

I just saw your Radiograffiti logo.  Niiiiiiiiice!

THANKSSS!

Holy fuck, thats really cool! Havent seen it either!

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PDX

@akira^8GB: My point is that its a shame there are contests for everything. Contests for fun and prizes are fine but anything else is spec work. Youre probably right that I'm too harsh to equate this situation to spec work and I know there's no harm intended and I wasn't trying to implicate that egr was anything like greedy bastards. For better or for worse egr seems to have gotten a positive result from my feedback so I'm pretty stoked.

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Abandoned on Fire

Updated the rules to align as closely as possible to the Graphic Artists Guild guidelines.

EDIT:  Me =\= Greedy Bastard and I think my wife would back me up on that.  tongue

Last edited by egr (Dec 1, 2011 4:06 am)

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Spec work is free work you do for assholes.