While the Pro-Sound Mod sounds fantastic, there are times (usually when I'm composing on the ouch or something) where I would rather use the speaker instead. I noticed that one of my DMG's has a really noticeable high pitched whine coming out of the speaker and headphone out. It is also the one with a backlight mod for what it's worth. On my other DMG, it is much, much quieter.

So I'm wondering if that is something I can fix by swapping out some of the capacitors or if anyone has perhaps already done this and had some thoughts to share?

A simple fix is to just disconnect the speaker but that would make composing chip-music while on the pooper a bit more difficult smile

130

(180 replies, posted in Nintendo Handhelds)

Krubbz wrote:

I don't know much about Arduinos, but does the fact that this works with them mean that building an Arduinoboy just got easier?

Looks like it could be used with little to no modifications, though I haven't finished building my ArduinoBoy so I can't say for sure. Trying to figure out where to mount my MIDI connectors was a small bother so this shield would generally solve that problem.

Wow kudos that is very cool! Pretty considerable audible difference as well. Curious what program you were using for all that? Ableton Live's spectrum analyzer isn't that cool smile

vgx wrote:

Yeah the square waves are closer to analogue oscillators so there shouldn't be any noise related to aliasing there, on closer reading I noticed m00dawg was discussing that, I was talking about the wave (psg wavetable) channel. Sorry to anyone if I was a bit misleading. I am to a certain degree making assumptions, I can hear aliasing or something similar to it on the wave channel on certain settings, I don't notice the same effect on the other channels.

It's more pronounced on the WAVE channel but I hear it on the squares too. Hopefully am going to have a Pro-Modded DMG-001 here in a few weeks so I'll try to remember to report back my findings on how that sounds.

133

(3 replies, posted in Releases)

Whoa, that's some pretty crazy, but cool, stuff you have going there! Curious what all you're using for the chips? They don't sound like typical squarewaves and things? Sound more FM to me?

134

(2 replies, posted in Releases)

Things got unintentionally out of hand the last time, so I'm just going to say here it is and that I hope you enjoy it!

nkogliaz wrote:

I think you may be trying to re-invent the wheel at this point from what I've seen, so all I can say is good luck.   /exits thread

Sorry didn't mean to pull your strings or anything if I did. I've just mentioned some of this stuff previously in the thread - it's sort of going round and round (o/~ like a record baby right round baby right round o/~).

The TL;DR is:

I haven't done a Pro-Sound yet.
I can fix this in Live with the parametric EQ.
Fixing it using an analog filter might be more fun.

Again, sorry if I pissed you off or anything - totally not my intent! Quite the contrary. Save for one person on this forum, everyone has been super nice and helpful and I very much appreciate all the advice and awesome community at large!

infradead wrote:

whats the problem?

i like the noise.  i embrace the noise.

go all in the box if you want shit perfect.  otherwise just learn to embrace and work with it..

i've had a set ruined in my opinion because i used a friends prosounded gameboy and didn't have all the noise to work with...

I think you're missing the point a bit. It's not noise in general that I'm concerned with. Like I said previously, if I wanted high quality chips, I can just generate waveforms on my Virus or using GoldWave (hah those were good times).

Also as mentioned before, the problem is the disharmonious high-pitched noise because that can be distracting to the rest of the song. The buzzes, fuzz, zippers, all that I do want. Just not the high pitched stuff that makes me ears bleed.

@nkogliaz Actually I've had a solution to the problem for a while by using Live's EQ to cut out the high pitches. So really this thread is just trying to figure out why there are there and alternatives other than that. It'd be nice, for instance, to have a portable solution. On that note, I am curious why a real analog low-pass filter wouldn't work? It cuts frequencies above a threshold, no? I know there is a roll-off going on there but it should hit 0 or close to it by the time it gets to the high pitches I'm trying to filter out?

"Filter" is a loaded term because I wasn't thinking of using an actual low-pass filter, with resonance and all that. Really just a regular low-pass, similar to turning down a the treble knob on a mixer. Feel free to correct me here, but using some large input capacitors along the audio chain would basically do what I would want?

boomlinde wrote:

What I can hear, though, is some constant high pitched bus whine, and also some lower frequency zipping noise when using an envelope. The latter noise has some high frequency content, too, which is very obvious and quite annoying. Maybe this is what you are hearing?

I'm definitely hearing high pitched aliasing when playing notes off the squares. I only hear it when actively playing something. The GameBoy does have a high pitched whine in some cases, but that seems to be different from what I am hearing. This sounds like jingling your keys on your keychain, just at a much higher pitch.

I have tried with the power save on and on auto. The actual audio has the noise characteristics so it seemed largely unaffected by that setting.

I'm playing this through a mixer, which also goes out to speakers, but also has a rec-out I use to capture the audio. The mixer, I'm sure, introduces some noise but the noise I am hearing definitely sounds like aliasing now that I've looked into it more - the mixer doesn't add that (I use it to record sources that don't have aliased noise).

From what I understand about the SID, it is a digitally-controlled analog synth at its heart. The precision is probably low, but I don't think it has the aliasing problem in the conventional sense. Plus it has analog filtering caps so I bet that may be helping there, in at least the cases where you have it on low or bandpass (I don't recall hearing any aliasing from the high-pass either though).

The SID is a noisy little beat, but it's mostly fuzzy noise, and that's noise I tend to like when talking about vintage gear. I'm not 100% sure about that, but I certainly haven't heard any aliasing with my MidiBox SID synths like I hear with the GameBoy.

vgx is probably on the money in regards to the aliasing going on. The characteristics of the spectrum graphs I have produced look strikingly similar to some of the ones I have seen when looking at discussions over downsampling (which causes aliasing).

I might build my own analog filter just for the GB at some point. In fact there's some neat work on the MidiBox side using SSM filters, though that's more than I need. I really just need a low-pass noise filter. I would imagine that isn't going to be terribly complex to build. For now, though, I'll likely do it in post since I have plenty of other things I still need to build (like an ArduinoBoy).

It's an interesting conversation for sure. Funny how I never noticed the aliasing when I was younger. Or maybe I did and just didn't know what it was wink

139

(3 replies, posted in Releases)

Digging Under Dragon Wings!

As a small suggestion, I noticed that the album lacks a bit of end that was fixed just by turning up the bass on my mixer. Might want to consider bumping up the bass a little bit on the originals as that might give it more depth unless you were going for a less bassy sound.

Otherwise, I dig it!

Rouwe wrote:

Yeah i have to admit Gameboy sound emulation isn't very good, at least last time I checked, but m00dawg mixes it with tons of other stuff. Like I said you probably wouldn't be able to tell the  difference with all the other stuff playing. Also that's just the Gameboy, all the other emulators for various systems sound dead on. Unless you're listening to a single system and you're not trying to pinpoint the noise the emulators don't emulate (which most people don't seem to want, what with all the pro sound mods) it doesn't matter.

Actually I've run into differences with FamiTracker. Check it out. Not every song is that different, however, and that may even be fixed in the newest version (that was done with 0.3.5). I'm not really spending the extra effort to record off the real hardware for cool points - just personal satisfaction more than anything.

You're right, though, few (if any) would notice the difference if I used emulation for this album, but, I dunno it's sort of like people who listen to vinyl. They put a lot of work into the art of listening when most people can just download file, play file. I think it's more the journey.

Oh and as far as buying the album, we would appreciate it! It is not required, however - the MP3s will be available for free. Speaking of vinyl, though, we want to do a limited run for the special edition version of the album if we can get enough money to fund it (it's not exactly cheap for a small band like us). We will also offer high quality versions of the songs off BandCamp that will be non-free. It's really more to support us if you feel the need - honestly the MP3s sound pretty close to the high quality versions (not surprising really given our lo-fi sound from the chips and guitars).

Sadly, tempsoundsolutions trolled up this post and marred what is actually my current favorite song off our album so I'm going to stop feeding the troll at this point and refrain from posting anything further and go about my day. Bums me out as this is the first post that was anything but amazingly helpful and considerate. Clearly tempsoundsolutions is set on being the opposite.

If you want to know my opinions about real versus emulated, feel free to PM me or we can start a new thread in another topic.

tempsoundsolutions wrote:

so would you say that the song has strong fakebit vibe to it?

According to Wikipedia:

"Fakebit refers to a style of electronic music that differs from real 8-bit (music) in being made with the technical resources of sound emulation...instead of real low bit computers and gaming consoles."

So, based upon that definition, no. We, often painstakingly, record all sounds from the real hardware. The only time we bend this rule is when we channels from some of the extra sound-chips (such as the VRC6 and FDS), though they are still painstakingly recorded off a real NES (via the PowerPak, but it is still emulation).

If you want to know details about how we record things and why, you can find some explanation here. To date, the only released song that uses an extra sound-chip is Tsunami Gaiden, which uses the extra channels of the VRC6. A few of our other songs in the works use the VRC6 or FDS, although I would imagine we will start using the GameBoy for future songs instead (particularly where we find the need to use the FDS channel).

Of course, if you know of a place to get some VRC6 chips without removing them from existing carts (such as my Akumajō Densetsu import), I would be all over that.

Well, it was a joke - hence the smiley, but whether or not you listen to the song is purely up to you. No need to apologize.

Using the real hardware for this album is something we're fairly proud about because it takes a good deal of time an effort, from recording to mastering. Though subjective, we try to balance showcasing the mediums as they were intended over making it sound pleasing.

So, for instance, we record each channel off the NES individually and add panning and EQ where needed as well as various other effects (reverb, EQ, compression on the drums sometimes, etc.). We don't generally use post delay or chorus effects as those can be done on the NES and we prefer to accentuate that. Delay on the NES sounds different than slapping a ping-pong delay in post, for example.

Where we had to take some license was in volume and EQ, though it's mostly for mixing as opposed to using volume to dramatic effects - we try to use the coarse volume settings on the NES for that.

If you use emulation, go for it, but the sound *IS* different. If it's the sound you want, problem solved. It's not the sound we wanted. We wanted as much of the character of our various chip-synths as we could have without it being audibly distracting. Really for us even though most people that listen to the music probably won't be able to tell the difference as to whether or was recorded on the real thing, it's a labor of love and I think has helped us think a bit more creatively for the album.

Not all our songs or albums will be so historical. Our next album will probably start making use of more modern effects on top of the NES and will be alongside modern synths. But it's rather far off.

We just finished our latest song off our forthcoming album, Chipsurf Pipeline. This is my favorite, at least so far, and one of the reasons is that it uses the 2A03, SID, and OPL3 chip-synths (the real deal - emulation is for pansies smile. I was trying to add in the GameBoy too but it just didn't fit the sound quite write (we wrote it before I had my GameBoy rig). Anyways hope you guys like it! It's not 100% chiptune but rather a collision of chiptune and surf:

http://victimcache.com/?p=115