danimal cannon wrote:
there's a lot of 7/4 or 7/8 on my album.
7/4 timing is sexy 
I've messed around with 12/4 and 6/4 timing once, it worked out surprisingly well!
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Matthew Joseph Payne
BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:
polymeter is similar in that it's all granulated subdivisions. 3:2 and 4:3 sound cool, 5:4 occasionally finds a use
Well technically all polyrhythms are supposed to be considered additives of 2s and 3s, so 5/4 should always be broken down one way or the other - 2 and 3 or 3 and 2.
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BOSTON
There I'm talking about polymetric superimposition: "An X-tuplet over Y beats of a certain duration". You can do this with anything. 5-over-4 is quite common, even 5-over-3, 7-over-4, etc.
it seems like you're referring to odd meters (which you would be correct about)? Perhaps you quoted the wrong part of my text?
edit: forgot a "t" apparently
Last edited by BR1GHT PR1MATE (Apr 26, 2012 6:17 am)
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montreal, qc
For what it's worth, I have seen sheet music notated as 4/3 (4 dotted half notes per bar.) While this is arguably no different than 12/8, certain writing conventions exist where 4/3 would be preferred. (For example: a short 8 bar passage in a piece written in 4/2). This may even be frowned upon - I have no idea. All I can say is that I have seen it in repertoire.
People seem to make a big deal out of time signatures. With the right syncopation/rhythmic sense, you can turn any finite grouping of 3's and 2's into something catchy and not-awkward.
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Gosford, Australia
polymeters are always fun and three or more rhythms playing at once can sound great when they're resolved thoughtfully
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Godzilladelph
http://skgb.bandcamp.com/album/condomtune
every tune on here switches time sigs, awake is predominantly 3/4. Sunday Tea Time starts in 4/4 then works into 7/4 / 9/8.
Ganesha is mostly 7/4 (if i remember) with some 3/2 towards the end. The last tune is all 4/4.
Gravitational Beam Emitter at the chorus is 15/16 with a quick ritard each measure to put it into 4/4 time.
Not sure if anyone covered this yet, but basically what you wanna do for lsdj time sigs is just use a shitton of H commands.
Last edited by SKGB (Apr 26, 2012 2:24 pm)
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Matthew Joseph Payne
BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:
it seems like you're referring to odd meters (which you would be correct about)? Perhaps you quoted the wrong part of my text?
yeah I'm talking about something different, hah
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Godzilladelph
kineticturtle wrote:
BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:polymeter is similar in that it's all granulated subdivisions. 3:2 and 4:3 sound cool, 5:4 occasionally finds a use
Well technically all polyrhythms are supposed to be considered additives of 2s and 3s, so 5/4 should always be broken down one way or the other - 2 and 3 or 3 and 2.
not necessarily true. you can definitely use 5, 7, 9, etc beats, it's just they line up less frequently (prime numbers and all that hot shit). You start to see things lining up around every couple hundred bars instead of every twelve. Which at first seems really impractical.
Until you quadruple the bpm of the song (and possibly write in a few simple melodies with like a 4/64 time sig).
ya dig?
wait nvrmnd. i just realized this was for lsdj only :P
Last edited by SKGB (Apr 26, 2012 7:13 pm)
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SKGB wrote:
not necessarily true. you can definitely use 5, 7, 9, etc beats, it's just they line up less frequently (prime numbers and all that hot shit).
What's he saying is that with the exception of time sig 1/* (a rarity, only really designated in classical music-a lot of the time people just tack on this extra beat onto the previous measure), all combinations are broken down into counts of 2 and 3.
For example, group of 5 can be counted as
1 2 3 | 4 5
or
1 2 | 3 4 5
You CAN use larger numbers, yes, but it really depends on what type of grouping we're focusing on. For example, (and one of the guys might be able to correct me on this) Cheap Dinosaurs has a song in 13/8. We just call the tune right now, "Thirteen."
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
To count up to thirteen while playing along is irrational and unnecessary.
<warning science nerd post coming>
Short-term memory research suggests a span of about 7 chunks of material with a standard deviation of 2. So 7 pieces, plus or minus two. Average peak memory span can range from 5-9 chunks, arguably. Counting up to 13 means you'd have to remember your place when counting and while playing Dino's wacky lines that are just mean to guitarists, I know I can't do that myself! So we can break it down. So our maximum can be anywhere from 5-9 total chunks. It's interesting to note that chunks are not just individual points of data, but a collection of information. So instead of counting beats, we can count GROUPS.
Of course it depends on where the rhythmic accents are within the song, but one way of counting this 13 could be breaking it down into groups of 2 and 3. This is what the previous posts were referring to, IMO (correct me if I misunderstood! 
) :
1 2 | 3 4 | 5 6 | 7 8 | 9 10 | 11 12 13
Now we have five groups of 2 and one group of 3. Six chunks. Half as small, but we want it as small as possible so we don't have to think about it at all. Let's try something new:
1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 11 12 | 13
Here, I doubled the groups of two into fours. Now we have four groups total. This works because you can now just treat a group of four as a "two" that's twice as long. Like so:
1 + 2 + | 3 + 4 + | 5 + 6 + | 13
But we still have that damn extra beat 13 at the end...what do?!?! We COULD break it down into 2 and 3...
1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 | 11 12 13
OR
1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 11 | 12 13
But this still has four groups. Plus, there's two ways of counting that group of 5, like my very first example. So in this case, I would do what SKGB proposed and actually use a group of 5 here!
1 2 3 4 | 5 6 7 8 | 9 10 11 12 13.
Three groups. Only three chunks to remember. 4, 4, 5.
13.
disclaimer: this is COMPLETELY dependent on the music. If the rhythmic accents explicitly impose a subdivision of groups, it's probably easier to count the measures in that manner. But for tackling an unfamiliar long measure, this is the method that I like to do, at least. This is by no means an official way of doing it but just something that helps me personally!
Last edited by an0va (Apr 26, 2012 8:31 pm)
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Godzilladelph
@An0va that's a really good way of counting irregular time sigs! Dino is motherfucking genious!
I usually just plug the time sig into lsdj and let it rock, it's fun to give the Machine a set algopolyrhythm and see how it handles it.
Btw, just remember that whatever time sigs you're playing with, will always lineup if you're multiplying them together.
For example: 3/4 and 4/4 will ALWAYS lineup after the 12 bar mark (exactly after the last beat right before the 13th bar)
Therefore, when you're syncing things like, say 7/4 and 9/4, 7 and 9's least common denominator may just be 7*9 (=63). In this case, you'll need to wait for bar 63 to get them to line up nicely.
Lastly, let's say you wanna sync up something like, 7/4 and 15/16. Notice, the note that gets the beat isn't the same, so you'll have to multiply up 7/4 to make the denominator 16 (multiply both by 4, which gives you 28/16). Now multiply 28 by 15, you get something like 420 (HAHAHA SMOKE WE3333D!!1!11! yeah.....) meaning you can form a polyrythm that will sync up every 420 measures.
That may seem like a long time to wait. so, instead, why not just quadruple the speed (bpm to be precise) at which you play the song. Therefore, you get polyrythms that line up at every 105 bars, and you are still able to sync 7/4 and 15/16.
While we are still working with that example, divide that 420 shit by 5. Now you got a 5/4 beat that will sync up with that ish every 21 measures.
Math is fucking bullshit
Last edited by SKGB (Apr 27, 2012 4:47 am)
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BOSTON
this is exactly the stuff i was talking about... le sigh
BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:
i think people love talking about time signatures because they think it's like some arcane classical music science or something
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buffalo, NY
lol syncing up 7/4 and 15/16 is the worst idea I've ever heard.