Terbografx
Offline
Long Beach, CA

I'm lookin' at Kinetic Turtle and Nick Maynard, but anyone that could help would be great!

I've been jamming some of my Game Boy music, for a good 2 or 3 months, with a drummer, bassist, and recently a guitarist and female co-vocalist. I myself play along with a Casio PT-1 (for additional leads) and a Casio MT series for background synths. I've been trying to hold back on my MIDI controllers for now, as I love the lo-fi Casio sounds.

I'd liken our sound to something like This Will Destroy You meets M83 meets (sometimes) Neon Indian. Maybe some My Bloody Valentine and Jesus and Mary Chain in there. Just very dream pop/shoegaze/post-rock. Some songs are instrumental. Some are verrryyy poppy, much like M83's recent stuff or even The Naked and Famous (mostly all due to a guy/girl vocal combo).

This is our current setup:

Game Boy (running LSDJ) + 2 Casios going into a Behringer Eurorack Mixer. The mixer is running through a 120-Watt PA with 2 Vocal Mics into 2 channels.

My guitarist and bassist aren't too big with pedal effects just yet, but the bassist has a bass synth pedal and a distortion pedal. The guitarist has a Line 6 Delay pedal, and a multi-effect pedal for reverb and distortion.

For the most part, everything is sounding alright, but a good deal of muddiness is present.

I want to know what's the BEST way to get a good rehearsal mix, whether it be how to manage mixer settings, guitar/bass dynamics, or even easing up on some of the GB channels (I'm open to omitting a bassline (Wav) or drum (mostly use noise) to let the bassist and drummer shine respectively if anyone thinks it sounds better in the final mix. Keep everything present would be the best option.

Here's a sample of the outro/climax of one of our tracks that I've added Reason guitar to. We haven't recorded anything, as a whole, yet, so this will have to do in order to let you guys have a decent idea of what we're doing.

http://soundcloud.com/megacrush/jenny-m … -new-outro

EDIT: Here's the above song in its entirety. It's nothing I'm releasing yet. It was just so my bandmates could hear the track. 

http://soundcloud.com/megacrush/jenny-and-the-beast


and here's a song that we won't be playing, but thought I'd be fun to share haha

http://soundcloud.com/megacrush/totchii … -the-world

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to hearing everything you have to say!

Last edited by Terbografx (Apr 23, 2012 8:31 am)

ChipsChallengeBand
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Rochester, NY

relevant to Chip's Challenge's interests

Terbografx
Offline
Long Beach, CA
ChipsChallengeBand wrote:

relevant to Chip's Challenge's interests


I'm listening to some of your tracks. What works best for you?

kineticturtle
Offline
Matthew Joseph Payne

Glad to offer what info I can, but are you trying to get a good sounding recording of your rehearsal, or are you trying to improve your in-rehearsal monitoring?

Solarbear
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Lexington, KY

Well, I'd look into both frequency and spatial mixing.

If you can spare some instrumental bass, the GB will fucking hog those low frequencies. My friends and I like to keep the actual instrumentation in the "mid" range and allow our 2 DMGs to take full low bass and high treble responsibilities.

Also, if any of your live instruments are going "line out" into a mixer, try panning them a little bit left or right. Your casios and the DMG can be panned even farther left and right, if you want.

EDIT: And one more thing! Playing live in a venue is always going to sound different than at your rehearsal space! Smaller areas soak up that treble, so you may have to boost your lead guitar/lead chip.

Last edited by Solarbear (Apr 24, 2012 5:23 pm)

nickmaynard
Offline
rochester, ny

here's what seems to work for me...

turn the amps down, they don't NEED to be so loud. i also turn the treble up a little more on the guitars because a lot of muddiness comes from the bass and guitars fighting over the same frequencies.

however, muddiness can be really hard to avoid when you have a lot going on. in revengineers songs, i try not to have the gameboy doing a ton of stuff at any given time, and to not have the guitars and gameboy playing leads at the same time (unless it's harmonized or in unison). songs can be muddy because the individual EQ's of each instrument, but i tend to think songs are more often muddy because of how they are composed.

i'm at work right now and so i can't listen to your examples but i will later and post again if i have any specific comments.

Terbografx
Offline
Long Beach, CA

Thanks for all the replies!

kineticturtle wrote:

Glad to offer what info I can, but are you trying to get a good sounding recording of your rehearsal, or are you trying to improve your in-rehearsal monitoring?

Thanks, man! For now, we're looking for good in-rehearsal monitoring. Recording would come much later, but I'm looking to play shows first and foremost.

Solarbear wrote:

Well, I'd look into both frequency and spatial mixing.

If you can spare some instrumental bass, the GB will fucking hog those low frequencies. My friends and I like to keep the actual instrumentation in the "mid" range and allow our 2 DMGs to take full low bass and high treble responsibilities.

Also, if any of your live instruments are going "line out" into a mixer, try panning them a little bit left or right. Your casios and the DMG can be panned even farther left and right, if you want.

EDIT: And one more thing! Playing live in a venue is always going to sound different than at your rehearsal space! Smaller areas soak up that treble, so you may have to boost your lead guitar/lead chip.

You know, the panning is something I will take into consideration. I didn't realize till now that I've been keeping each channel at mostly 45% L/R. What would you recommend for the physical distance between the PA speakers?

nickmaynard wrote:

here's what seems to work for me...

turn the amps down, they don't NEED to be so loud. i also turn the treble up a little more on the guitars because a lot of muddiness comes from the bass and guitars fighting over the same frequencies.

however, muddiness can be really hard to avoid when you have a lot going on. in revengineers songs, i try not to have the gameboy doing a ton of stuff at any given time, and to not have the guitars and gameboy playing leads at the same time (unless it's harmonized or in unison). songs can be muddy because the individual EQ's of each instrument, but i tend to think songs are more often muddy because of how they are composed.

i'm at work right now and so i can't listen to your examples but i will later and post again if i have any specific comments.

This helps a lot!

You know, I'll admit, the GB parts I've written are less complementary than they are a main piece of the group. I guess you can say I've taken an Anamanaguchi approach, and not really having the 8-bit as just another instrument. Your band seems to take a similar approach, but it all sounds so seamless and utilized appropriately from what I've listened to.

With that said, I also don't want to take away any duties from the other instruments for the sake of having the Game Boy shine through. From what I'm hearing, the best way is either stick to rhythmic accompaniment or harmonization.

ChipsChallengeBand
Offline
Rochester, NY

For rehearsal, we just turn up our my practice amps (because all I have are practice amps) as loud as we can stand and then Ben and Zack have decent sized amps so they just match, then we turn it down because it gets uncomfortably loud

we don't even have a practice PA so we can't really practice using a live mixer

which is why the thread was relevant to our interests because we probably have really shitty sounding practices idk

when we're live we probably sound like shit too

Solarbear
Offline
Lexington, KY
Terbografx wrote:

What would you recommend for the physical distance between the PA speakers?

The physical distance is going to be different at all the venues, so it's hard to say, BUT I'd say about a 130 degree angle would be good for practice.

noisewaves
Offline
Michigan

always (and this never fails), remember the sound guys name at a venue. you'll get a great live mix that way.

do not call him "sound guy"

kineticturtle
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Matthew Joseph Payne

Lots of good advice in this thread already.

Complementary writing between chip and band is the way to go if you want a clear mix in your music. This goes much deeper than audio and PA setup of course. I've actually been going back through earlier Glowing Stars songs and ripping out a bunch of noise channel parts. Awkward Terrible doesn't even use the noise channel half the time. This is also why I don't use a hi-hat in that band, because I prefer to program clicky and hi-hat esque stuff into that channel and I can't have both going at once.

In my experience and opinion, in-ear monitoring is the way to go. We initially tried it because we were doing an internet TV gig with audio direct to the sound board, but it's stuck because it's so much clearer than loud PA through earplugs. I've now got things set up so we each get our own mix of things. Everything but the drums goes direct into the monitoring system.

herr_prof
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Solarbear wrote:

EDIT: And one more thing! Playing live in a venue is always going to sound different than at your rehearsal space! Smaller areas soak up that treble, so you may have to boost your lead guitar/lead chip.

Ive been to way too many chip shows where the trebles were KILLING people. IF you notice no one is directly in front the stage, maybe cut some highs a little.

Im not a fan of in ears cause it feels like you are so cut off from the crowd, and it really impedes my heckler avoidance techniques.

Last edited by herr_prof (Apr 25, 2012 6:35 pm)

kineticturtle
Offline
Matthew Joseph Payne
herr_prof wrote:

Im not a fan of in ears cause it feels like you are so cut off from the crowd, and it really impedes my heckler avoidance techniques.

There's a bit of a tradeoff there, but I don't have too much trouble. With two vocal mics onstage, we can usually hear the crowd just fine. I've considered adding an ambient mic with a ducker that turns it off while we're playing a song, but allows room noise in while we're quiet. Haven't gotten around to it.

Solarbear
Offline
Lexington, KY
herr_prof wrote:
Solarbear wrote:

EDIT: And one more thing! Playing live in a venue is always going to sound different than at your rehearsal space! Smaller areas soak up that treble, so you may have to boost your lead guitar/lead chip.

Ive been to way too many chip shows where the trebles were KILLING people. IF you notice no one is directly in front the stage, maybe cut some highs a little.

Im not a fan of in ears cause it feels like you are so cut off from the crowd, and it really impedes my heckler avoidance techniques.

My personal advice would be to take Herr's word over mine, since he's been around for awhile, haha.

herr_prof
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i only make the onstage mixer mix perfect for me on stage if I have a sound guy to fix it for the FOH mix. If not, i suffer through it.

Terbografx
Offline
Long Beach, CA
kineticturtle wrote:

Lots of good advice in this thread already.

Complementary writing between chip and band is the way to go if you want a clear mix in your music. This goes much deeper than audio and PA setup of course. I've actually been going back through earlier Glowing Stars songs and ripping out a bunch of noise channel parts. Awkward Terrible doesn't even use the noise channel half the time. This is also why I don't use a hi-hat in that band, because I prefer to program clicky and hi-hat esque stuff into that channel and I can't have both going at once.

In my experience and opinion, in-ear monitoring is the way to go. We initially tried it because we were doing an internet TV gig with audio direct to the sound board, but it's stuck because it's so much clearer than loud PA through earplugs. I've now got things set up so we each get our own mix of things. Everything but the drums goes direct into the monitoring system.

You know, I always wondered if bands like anamanaguchi, TGS, and the like kept their respective percussion channels. I guess, in order to do so, the drummer has to pretty much play exactly what's going on in that channel, correct?

Either way, I'm very much liking omitting a majority of the noise channel. Maybe Keeping in some fills and lead-ins, but just letting the drummer shine through in the mix.