sanjsanj
Offline

Greetings folks,


ABOUT US:
--------------

My partner and I have been developing games for a couple of years.  His background focuses on programming and I on design, graphics and producing.  I've got two games under my belt on the iTunes store if you want to check them out; Good Shot and Four Gods.  Our first release together as a team is also available on iTunes; Nano Chess.


SO, WHAT'S THE DEAL?
-------------------------------

Our next project will be a browser-based game done in an 8-bit retro style, we might have a stand-alone executable as well as go on Kongregate, early stages at the moment.  First iteration of the design is done, graphical assets done and development has begun.  I'd love to show off what we've got so far but I can't until it's actually released, which I hope will be around 4-8 weeks from now.

So, what we need from you is your amazing musical talent!  What you'll get is a credit in our finished title should we choose your work that you can proudly display on your CV and online presence.  Unfortunately we can't pay you, I know from my past dealing with amateur creators that you deserve every penny you get, hey we're in the same boat, but unfortunately the money just isn't there.

We're amateur creators ourselves and do it just for the love of it, hoping to get some recognition.  Together with your help we hope to produce a fantastic experience for our users.


GAME OVERVIEW:
-----------------------

Sorry,  I can't give too much away, but...

It's an 8-bit retro game.  Purists will scoff at some of the changes we've had to make to make it viable and fun but we've kept it as retro as we can.
It has a mysterious setting and involves people beating the crap out of each other for fame and glory!
Casual, fast-paced and humorous.


WHAT WE NEED:
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All music must be clearly reminiscent of the 8-bit era.

1 - Intro music
A loopable track that's about 45-60 secs long.  Jungle/Desert/Gladiatorial themes.

2 - Battle jingle
A default jingle to signify the start of battle, about 5 secs long, no looping.

3 - Win and Lose jingle
About 5 secs of music to signify victory or loss.

4 - Theme music that is loopable and lasts about 45-60 secs for each of the following character types;
Ninja
Archer
Shaman
Axeman
Zombie
Warrior


FORMAT:
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.WAV files please, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit.


WHAT TO DO:
------------------

PM me on this forum or reply to this thread if you have any questions.
Send me the link to WAV files via PM please.

Use the following naming convention: YourName_WhatMusicYou'reSubmitting.WAV
e.g.  JohnJones_Intro.wav  or  MarkChan_Ninja.wav  or  JaneSmith_Win.wav  etc.


LEGALESE:
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You will grant us the creative and financial rights to anything you submit that we accept for use in this project, in whole or in part.  You will retain the creative and financial rights for the use,sale or distribution of your own work outside of use in this project.  Anything you submit must be your own exclusive work or you must previously have the exclusive rights to it.  You must be eighteen years of age or above.  We accept no liability arising from our relationship with you.


Thank you.


EDIT:  Edited to allow the original creator to retain creative and financial rights to their works for use, sale or distribution outside of this project.

Last edited by sanjsanj (Oct 9, 2012 6:57 am)

defiantsystems
Offline
.FILTHadelphia

Man, the prospect of creating 8 minutes worth of original music without ever receiving a dime while you guys pocket all the profits you make on the iTunes store is REALLY enticing. If only I had been born yesterday I would seal the deal on this offer.

e.s.c.
Offline
IL, US

also, giving over full rights with no pay? fuck that...if youre expecting free, most you should be hoping for is someone granting you limited license to use the tracks in your game for free while they retain all other rights.. otherwise you could even sell the soundtrack on its own and pocket all the cash (and on the flip side, the artist themselves wouldnt even be able to sell cds of it at their gigs)

Aeros
Offline
Savannah, Georgia

good, i'm not the only one laughing at this

nitro2k01
Offline
Sweeeeeeden

Come on, don't be so harsh on him. Is it too much to ask for to have someone work for free and then give away all their rights?

thebitman
Offline

Totally not relevant.

ChipsChallengeBand
Offline
Rochester, NY

this is actually relevant:

http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/8713/ … r-my-game/

it's how to ask for music in your game

spacetownsavior
Offline
San Diego, CA

you guys are really paranoid

whatever happened to creative work for creative work's sake? if you don't want to submit anything, don't, but don't go around acting like they're trying to rob you of all your art. I mean, have you guys considered the possibility that these guys may ACTUALLY be in the same dire financial straits as you? and that this MAY simply be an attempt to make a game, rather than make millions of dollars?

I get it; you don't want to be treated like half-rate artists for your work and you want to be taken seriously. maybe you've been burned before on this kind of stuff. but look at what they're asking for -- 45-60 second loops. not an entire orchestral suite that deals with themes of technology in a post-modern age, just loops. that's like two rows of chains in LSDJ.

I'm coming at you as both a musician (who hasn't made very much off his music) and someone who has tried (and is currently trying) to work on small projects like this. people who ask for something like this are trying to channel the spirit of creative collaboration -- they're not trying to make a million dollars with your music and then run off with it. and seriously, what are the chances that they make millions of dollars anyway? there are literally thousands and thousands of games on the iTunes app store -- how many of them are going to make any more than a couple hundred dollars, if that? what happened to the collaborative spirit that helped this community grow so fast? I guess we're so damn good at writing music that we're above fostering an attitude of creativity and collaboration.

they asked wrong--ok. but that's still no reason to get all haughty about our music.

sanjsanj
Offline

Awesome replies.

Only the top 1% of apps on the app store actually make any money at all.  Millions?  You're dreaming.  We've made infinitely closer to $0 than $1M.  We do it because we love it.  We're just as broke as the rest of you plus we have no musical talent or training, so we have to humbly come to you and get mud thrown in our face.

Additionally this project is not an app, it's browser-based and going to be on PC/Mac.  Projected profit - $0.  I'll gladly give you your share of zero.

Everyone seems to think that everyone in their industry except them makes tonnes of money and that they're somehow getting robbed.  I'll tell you from personal experience that comedians actually have to PAY to perform a standup these days, unless they're the top 1% of the hottest comedians.  Musicians PAY clubs to let them perform.  Strippers PAY a club to let them work it.  There's much more supply than there is demand for everything creative these days and I'll virtually guarantee you that five years from now musicians and artists will be paying to get their work featured in games/apps/software simply because of market forces.

That sucks?  No shit, Sherlock.

I'm sorry I couldn't show more of what we've done, it's in development, once it's done I'll gladly show it off and no doubt receive a bevvy of sarcastic put-downs for my trouble.  Ok you deserve to keep the rights to what you've done, especially if you're not getting remunerated for it, I'll change that.  But what cloud do you live on where you think you'll magically make a fortune off of it?  Creativity is an energy that finds it's own path.  Money corrupts everything it touches.  Greed is bad.

If anyone feels like dusting some old tracks off that would otherwise do fuck all for them then kindly state your terms and I'd love to have a listen.

Spacetownsav - Thanks for standing up for the other side of the table mate, I owe you one.

Peace and love to you all.

defiantsystems
Offline
.FILTHadelphia

You got awesome replies because your pitch was so killer. Take a walk in our shoes for a moment and you'll see why you got burned here.

First and foremost you have nothing to show that you're actually making a game other than your word which means nothing on the internet. Development video or screenshots would have added something to your credibility but you came on here with nothing. You didn't even bother to give a description of the game because "shh... it's a secret." How am I supposed to know the game is good or exists at all? I'm certainly not going create a body of work for a game that is absolute garbage. Since there's nothing to show something doesn't seem right but the nail in the coffin was that you wanted to retain financial and creative rights to the musical properties. So now that I've surrendered over these rights all I'm going on is your word that you MIGHT make mention of who actually created the music. Unless you think we are completely naive no one is going to believe you have the best intentions here. Who is to say that you haven't been commissioned by another game developer to complete songs for a game and you're just going to try and scam some chip musicians out of free work? While this scenario may be unlikely you claim it's non-profit but your portfolio of past work is all for-profit. How am I supposed to know you won't be profiting off of your game via Google Ads or some other form of advertising money? So you make the claim you don't have money now but as soon as the game is up and running, you're now collecting money from Google and pocketing all of it and in turn collecting money for work I've done for you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a some kind of monetary payment out of this project. I certainly don't make chip music because I think there's inevitably going to be a paycheck at the end of the day. I would be happy to do something if I thought there would be great promotion out of it. All the examples you've listed about people paying to play is all about promotion besides strippers they take the risk of making more money at a better club. If that is the payoff then great but if you want to collaborate with people bring something to the table. It's pretty easy here to see what people are capable of. Click someone's name and start listening to their songs. Just because you want small 5-60 second song loops doesn't mean it's going to take 5 or 60 seconds to create any of them. In fact I would probably spend a great deal of time on each amounting to quite a large workload when all is said and done. That's quite a large risk to take on a no name game developer who doesn't even have a single screen shot to show and won't even describe the game.

People have been burned on here in the past with similar projects and people continue to plagiarize chip musicians. So don't act surprised or offended when we're a little apprehensive about your shady project.

ultramega
Offline
Boston, MA

love it! strippers do not pay to strip

danimal cannon
Offline
buffalo, NY

And only 16 year old musicians pay to play.

2PLAYER
Offline
Rhode Island
sanjsanj wrote:

We've made infinitely closer to $0 than $1M

This doesnt say much as you could have made a good amount of money but in relation to 1M it's not much.

sanjsanj wrote:

Projected profit - $0.  I'll gladly give you your share of zero.

So revenue share then? If greed is such a bad thing and you dont make any money anyways you should be offering a slice of the potentially nonexistent pie.

sanjsanj wrote:

There's much more supply than there is demand for everything creative these days and I'll virtually guarantee you that five years from now musicians and artists will be paying to get their work featured in games/apps/software simply because of market forces.

Right and this is why it still costs millions to get Hans Zimmer to compose a soundtrack for the COD series. They could have just come to this board and got it for free.

kineticturtle
Offline
Matthew Joseph Payne
danimal cannon wrote:

And only 16 year old musicians pay to play.

nitro2k01
Offline
Sweeeeeeden
sanjsanj wrote:

Only the top 1% of apps on the app store actually make any money at all.  Millions?  You're dreaming.  We've made infinitely closer to $0 than $1M.  We do it because we love it.  We're just as broke as the rest of you plus we have no musical talent or training, so we have to humbly come to you and get mud thrown in our face.

We get it. You're poor too. But the problem with the original proposition was no payment AND exclusive rights. If you want to play nice, pick only one of the two. There was not even a mention of due credit to the artist. The original legalese didn't read "help a brother out" but "if we do make it big, we don't want legal trouble".

herr_prof
Offline
Unsubscribe

Yea if some stranger was opening a grocery store, but they told prospective employees HEY GROCERS WE CANT PAY YOU ANYTHING CAUSE WE DONT MAKE MONEY, youd think they were a pretty shitty businessman. You can either pay creatives in the goodwill of a friend, the equity of a partner, the flat fee of a contractor, or the limited borrowing of a for credit licensee (ie you borrow the music, give credit no exclusive rights). You can't have it all ways.