Been noticing some things about WAV basses when mixing my latest album. Notes E2 (E3 in earlier versions) are actually in the sub range, and if you have a sine wave, it will be almost inaudible on most systems. An A2 sits right the sweet spot of most bass EQ curves and will sound punishingly loud compared to lower notes.
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Seattle, WA US
danimal cannon wrote:
Been noticing some things about WAV basses when mixing my latest album. Notes E2 (E3 in earlier versions) are actually in the sub range, and if you have a sine wave, it will be almost inaudible on most systems. An A2 sits right the sweet spot of most bass EQ curves and will sound punishingly loud compared to lower notes.
sshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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washington
danimal cannon wrote:
Been noticing some things about WAV basses when mixing my latest album. Notes E2 (E3 in earlier versions) are actually in the sub range, and if you have a sine wave, it will be almost inaudible on most systems. An A2 sits right the sweet spot of most bass EQ curves and will sound punishingly loud compared to lower notes.
I have a crap stereo that I've built from parts I bought at goodwill, and their 'sweet spots' are at about a C3, which isn't too far off.
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Canada
danimal cannon wrote:
Been noticing some things about WAV basses when mixing my latest album. Notes E2 (E3 in earlier versions) are actually in the sub range, and if you have a sine wave, it will be almost inaudible on most systems. An A2 sits right the sweet spot of most bass EQ curves and will sound punishingly loud compared to lower notes.
danimal cannon wrote:
Been noticing some things about WAV basses when mixing my latest album.
danimal cannon wrote:
mixing my latest album.
New album in the works 
? 
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danimal cannon wrote:
Been noticing some things about WAV basses when mixing my latest album. Notes E2 (E3 in earlier versions) are actually in the sub range, and if you have a sine wave, it will be almost inaudible on most systems. An A2 sits right the sweet spot of most bass EQ curves and will sound punishingly loud compared to lower notes.
I think a lot of this has to do with the difference in frequency in this range. A2 is like 100 Hz, and E2 is something like 80 Hz. This might not seem like a lot to most people (Dan, you and your wizardry will appreciate this), but sine waves are plain and have no overtones. Coincidentally, it is hard to make a standard sine wave more "interesting" unless work is done via additive synthesis. The Gameboy uses subtractive synthesis, and the E2 label actually applies to all other waveforms BESIDES sine waves. Theoretically, any other wave type can be made out of sine waves, so the lowest nominal octave for these "compound" sine waveforms LSDJ makes is the C2 and up range. Saw waves are made out of (I think 4 or so, with each wave being faster [ie higher pitched] and slightly less amplified than the one before) mathematically manipulated sine waves, pulse waves (also like 4 waves, different wave speed system and harmonics created from it) can be made from sine waves, and triangle waves are basically bass heavy pulse waves.
So if we know everything (theoretically) in the WAV channel is somehow derived from sine waves, why does a single sine wave itself sound lower?
I would imagine that this main cutoff in sound occurs for the following reasons: the human ear can hear down to about 20 Hz, and that is around A0. When I play tuba, the lowest I can hit is about Bb1. Considering the fact that the range of the once-common 3 valve tuba, traditionally tuned string bass and 4 string electric bass tends to stop at E2, and all the bass instruments were common around the time electronic filtering was first done via analog in the 50's for recording and mastering for vinyl. These instruments existed in the time of modern orchestra, rock, bebop, and other popular genres. Aside from special piano, organ, and instrumental works, there was a special need to make these super-low frequency waves "felt." (I'm not exactly knowledgeable on studio techniques from before the late 70's, but I would imagine some basic mixing happened.)
Unlike the sine wav, these instruments played overtones that could potentially form perfect octaves could affect the quality of a recording. With the help of filtering and spatial mixing, this became less of a problem. So basically, I think it is partially due to the consumer-level hardware standards for listening equipment plus a heavy impact by traditional "bassy" instruments being put into practice. Since sine waves are the only sound wave type typically lacking an overtone, the low sines sound lower than any kind of bass wave.
Don't hold me to this, I'm not an audio engineer, but I am pretty sure something like this is the reason for the lack of punch.
Last edited by thebitman (Nov 22, 2012 1:28 am)
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If I'm not mistaken the Gameboy is entirely Additive synthesis not subtractive, you explained it as additive though, so maybe you just mistyped. Though the Synth screen portrays subtractive techniques (like filters) it really only uses the settings to draw a set of of wave forms which it then plays back. While every sound imaginable can be formed by manipulating endless sine waves, I don't believe that's how the gameboy functions.
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Zef wrote:
If I'm not mistaken the Gameboy is entirely Additive synthesis not subtractive, you explained it as additive though, so maybe you just mistyped. Though the Synth screen portrays subtractive techniques (like filters) it really only uses the settings to draw a set of of wave forms which it then plays back. While every sound imaginable can be formed by manipulating endless sine waves, I don't believe that's how the gameboy functions.
Yep, it's additive. I haven't read up on this in a while. Got a bit caught up in the subtractive side of the things like filters. xD
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I just fck around with the valvues till it sounds good.
And 90% of the time i don't now what i'm doing in LSDJ. Dosn't matter, 'cause 90% of my whole day i don't know what i'm doing.
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England
fuck triangle, saw or square wave.
i like to try and draw dick shapes in the drawing bit and make a dick bass special sound.
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Madriz, Supain
Jellica wrote:
fuck triangle, saw or square wave.
i like to try and draw dick shapes in the drawing bit and make a dick bass special sound.
You know, in spanish we say "thats the dick" instead of "thats the shit".
Ima copy you like crazy and make all my basses be the dick
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México, DF.
I play with the synth setting until it sounds sorta good, then I play with the waveform to get a good blending between sine and square.
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Fargo
There are so many things you can do with the WAV channel it's not even funny. It'd be a tragedy to only use one sound.
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La paz - Bolivia
9-Heart wrote:
I just fck around with the valvues till it sounds good.
And 90% of the time i don't now what i'm doing in LSDJ. Dosn't matter, 'cause 90% of my whole day i don't know what i'm doing.
THIS.
ANyway, I ussually put the wav channel as kick drum and lead at the same time. PU1 becomes a Bass Inst and PU2 a Harm inst. I'm yet trying to figure how to use NOI as a wall of sound (like those in shoegaze).
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I like to use sometimes the tri wave for kick drums, but the saw wave is just as cool
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ohio gozaimasu
I almost always use a saw wave with different filter settings. I used to use a lot of resonance to get some really sharp sounds, but lately I've just been using slight to moderate low pass filter with no resonance. I feel that, specifically double lsdj, less harsh basses are better to get a fuller set of frequencies. A lot of the time I'll use patterns that play between varied levels of harshness, so I can get a more varied sound.