bryface
Offline
vancouver, canada

so, there's been an increase in streamed shows as of late and i thought i'd be interesting to see everyone's thoughts on streaming in general as a paradigm - what are some things that are done right, and what are some things that need rethinking.

overall i think that the very existence of streamshows, alone, is a GREAT thing - it shows that the chip community is still thriving and is looking for new ways to connect and congregate.  it's particularly a boon for those who don't live in geographically chip-heavy parts of the world.

but definitely there are some challenges to the organization, format, and presentation.  to be fair though, streaming in this fashion is a relatively new phenomenon and i'm sure the various shows are just trying different kinds of things to see what works and what doesn't.

here's some more random brain noise from me:

- most shows are simply way too long and don't have enough of a benefit-to-cost ratio.  i appreciate the sheer novelty of having 10-hour streaming extravaganzas, but now that i've experienced it, i don't think i really need to experience it again in that way.  i realized that my attention span can only sustain me for about 4 hours or so, beyond that, my mind kind of burns out.

- artist delays are kind of a big problem.  hopefully there'll be some common policy/understanding as to handling late starts, cutting sets short, etc.  one way to mitigate this is to have intermissions every couple of hours.

- curation needs to be more discriminate and editorial.  this is so that a viewer has a reasonable confidence that if they check out a stream, it'll definitely be worth their time and attention.

- maybe the whole streamed show / Lineup Of Artists is fundamentally flawed format?  one alternative i had in mind was a "variety show" of shorts, a two-hour format where 2-to-4 active chip people discuss the latest goings-on panel-style over skype.  pepper in one or two artist interviews/streamed performances, and small segments like "chipmusic 101" or modding tutorials.  basically it would be an amalgamation of shows like  TrueStar's NoiseChan, Seaking's Seaglass and those State of the Game starcraft podcasts where players/casters just shoot the breeze in a 5-way split screen window.

- people performing from their homes:  some (rightfully) think that it's lame, others see it as a refreshing window into the lives of chip artists.  what do you think?

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America

btw, are you talking about video streaming or just audio/radio format? Or both?

- most shows are simply way too long and don't have enough of a benefit-to-cost ratio.  i appreciate the sheer novelty of having 10-hour streaming extravaganzas, but now that i've experienced it, i don't think i really need to experience it again in that way.  i realized that my attention span can only sustain me for about 4 hours or so, beyond that, my mind kind of burns out.

As a person on the receiving end, I like being able to know that even if I have a busy schedule chances are that with a 10-hour extravaganza I'll be able to see at least 1 performance at some point in the day/night.

- artist delays are kind of a big problem.  hopefully there'll be some common policy/understanding as to handling late starts, cutting sets short, etc.  one way to mitigate this is to have intermissions every couple of hours.

Yeah. Having artists come on back-to-back with no intermission can lead to some embarrassing delays. I don't personally care about the delays myself, though. I'm on the internet. I have other things I can do, lol.

- maybe the whole streamed show / Lineup Of Artists is fundamentally flawed format?  one alternative i had in mind was a "variety show" of shorts, a two-hour format where 2-to-4 active chip people discuss the latest goings-on panel-style over skype.  pepper in one or two artist interviews/streamed performances, and small segments like "chipmusic 101" or modding tutorials.  basically it would be an amalgamation of shows like  TrueStar's NoiseChan, Seaking's Seaglass and those State of the Game starcraft podcasts where players/casters just shoot the breeze in a 5-way split screen window.

That would actually be pretty cool and legit. Kind of like American Band Stand type thing crossed with Tonight Show/SNL/Carson Daly.

- people performing from their homes:  some (rightfully) think that it's lame, others see it as a refreshing window into the lives of chip artists.  what do you think?

I think it's cool. Live music always has a different feel than recorded stuff, even if it's just streamed directly from home, and I actually sometimes prefer the live performances over the studio recordings. Streaming parties with a line-up of artists performing from home are pretty cool, as it's not a live stream of a live concert, but a live streamed concert in and of itself, you know? It's like, instead of "Vegan Eggs", I think of it as "Fried Tofu".>_>

<_<

I watch youtube videos of people performing at home, so *shrug*. I don't see anything wrong with it, though i can see the la-... I mean uncool element of it.

I just feel like, live streams don't get enough attendance, though.

Edit: I feel like home streamed shows could be a little more engaging, though. Dramatic lighting effects and stuff.

Edit edit: My favorite live streamed shows are the ones in which the camera is in the back of the venue so that at least some of the crowd can be seen. It feels more immersive that way.

Last edited by SketchMan3 (Dec 17, 2012 8:47 pm)

herr_prof
Offline
Unsubscribe

As someone who has booked tons of shows that people vlamored to be streamed, I can tell you it simply isnt worth the trouble to do something that costs time and energy and results in zero additional dollars. Is there a way to stream stuff that people pay for?

Battle Lava
Offline

Hi Bryface,

I watched a video performance of you on ustream.tv not too long ago. I was very happy with the quality of your songs. Great stuff, really.

That said, watching the video was boring as shit. Sounds harsh I guess, but I'm being serious. A great thing about live performances in the chip community, which isn't necessarily unique to the scene but an integral aspect, are collaborations in the performance with visual artists. From what I can tell, streaming performance should not forget this collaboration.

token
Offline

streaming sucks, just another way to show off that all important gameboy

Victory Road
Offline
Gosford, Australia

i was supposed to stream on the weekend but the preamps on my interface stopped working (all crackles/dropouts). just shelled out 400 for a new one :v

i don't like the idea of performing in my bedroom or pointing a camera at my hands - both do nothing for stage presence. i wanted to try making it as much like a show that i would play to an audience right in front of my BUT it's a lot of stuff to organise! also timezones can eat butts.

cheapshot
Offline
Tokyo, Japan

As bryface said, for getting people from all over the world playing the same show, it wins! Yes, it can be dull just watching a dude in his bedroom playing tunes (and yes, I am a culprit of this) but others really go to a lot of effort like hosting a party at the same time or adding some live raps/singing/guitar/drums etc.

I think his main gripe is that they are too long and they generally don't have good artists? (his opinion, not mine...)

As herr_prof said -- it's a free webshow. What more do you want? As long as you have a timetable before hand, pick n choose who you want to see!

ant1
Offline
uhajdafdfdfa

i am opposed to it. i was put in the "bad" class for woodwork and it felt like being boarded up in a plague house in the way you're just left to rot

i also thought this thread would be about streaming as in bandcamp/soundcloud stuff. i don't much like that either.

but to your real subject:
- if it would work on radio (people playing cool music (written by other people), chatting, making jokes, etc), it'll probably work as an audio stream
- if it would work on television (broadcasts of important/big concerts/events), it'll probably work as a video stream
- if it wouldn't work on either of those (people in their bedrooms self-indulgently fiddling with kaoss pads), it's unlikely to work as any kind of stream

egr
Offline
Abandoned on Fire

I like the idea of streamed live performances but the quality of the video and usually audio turn me off after only a short while.

A lot of the problems would be solved by prerecording, editing, and THEN streaming at a scheduled time like a ppv event.  In general the effort that goes into presenting the material needs to be stepped up orders of magnitude to make it engaging.  Datathrash did one streaming event and it was fun but i doubt we'll do more.

Xuriik
Offline
Puerto Rico

Wow what a bunch of negative responses. I've only ever seen one or two streams, here are my two cents:

Streams are pretty cool and are definitely a testament to how alive this scene is, especially considering how a lot of us can't make it to physical chip shows, and our progress in creating a scene around us is very slow. Plus it beats idling on IRC.

I don't mind the quality and I don't mind the delays, let's be realistic, "physical" shows have a delay while arists set up.

The variety webshow idea doesn't appeal to me because I kind of just tab out and listen until some really good music draws me back to look at what the artist is doing, but I can see how a lot of people could enjoy that.

Nothing wrong with bedroom performances, but if you're just gonna sit down and press play, then what's the point of a video stream.

And finally I agree that curation needs to be more editorial.

Maybe if the typical problems of clipstream and voidcore can be dealt with streams would be awesome. They shouldn't be a weekly thing, and they shouldn't take center stage, but they're still a great thing.

Last edited by Xuriik (Dec 17, 2012 10:54 pm)

e.s.c.
Offline
IL, US

ive experimented a bit with streaming sets, so far my biggest gripe is the quality of the streaming video (not good, ~15 fps, some sync issues)... that being said, people can mix in other things using software or hardware (i run my full video rig in using a video capture device... you should be able to find some software that will let you mix in the webcam with visuals, possbily neuromixer)... there are ways to make viewing a bit more interesting, just hope the video quality improves

Madhatter
Offline
Melbourne, Australia

I think it's great, although after a little while I'm bored of watching artists play with knobs.
It'd be really great to incorporate some actual performance along with the chip, for example muting one of your pulse channels and grabbing a real keyboard instead to play along with.
That's why non-chip or non-dj shows are exiting because you're witnessing a lot of skill and muscle-memory, not to mention the potential for huge failure.

That said, the WWCW is a fantastic thing we should all be proud of (and keep pushing the boundaries of).

Dauragon
Offline
Washington DC

I think they are totally fine and fun.

TWO CENTS

celsius
Offline
Melbourne, Australia

It's just about effort.

As people have mentioned all you need to do is replicate a format that exists in traditional media. It's the main reason Soundbytes hasn't video streamed many events. If you can't elevate the stream to a standard that you'd be excited to watch (not just, "oh... cool... a video stream. I guess it might be worth a watch") then it's probably not worth doing. In that case we generally just stream audio.

I think the main thing lacking, that could easily solve many short comings, would be to have a stream host or an HQ to cut back to between sets. I have a shit load of ideas and suggestions on how to make it awesome but I think I'll save those for myself to use when we're going to properly launch a Soundbytes stream worthy of everyone's attention.

Madhatter
Offline
Melbourne, Australia
celsius wrote:

I think the main thing lacking, that could easily solve many short comings, would be to have a stream host or an HQ to cut back to between sets. I have a shit load of ideas and suggestions on how to make it awesome but I think I'll save those for myself to use when we're going to properly launch a Soundbytes stream worthy of everyone's attention.

Couldn't you just take the camera off the tripod and go interview artists backstage or something of the like between sets? Maybe some of quick discussion-type thing?

celsius
Offline
Melbourne, Australia
Madhatter wrote:
celsius wrote:

I think the main thing lacking, that could easily solve many short comings, would be to have a stream host or an HQ to cut back to between sets. I have a shit load of ideas and suggestions on how to make it awesome but I think I'll save those for myself to use when we're going to properly launch a Soundbytes stream worthy of everyone's attention.

Couldn't you just take the camera off the tripod and go interview artists backstage or something of the like between sets? Maybe some of quick discussion-type thing?

Sure. That is one option of many. In my opinion not the most elegant solution, but a solution none the less. As I said, a good idea is to think about what works in broadcasting live events via traditional media and build on that. I understand that people are trying to bootstrap these types of events with zero budget but I think even your suggestion can be built upon and expanded for zero dollars.

I'm not going to tell people how to do it because as noted I have been working on ideas of my own with the local crew for sometime and don't want to spoil anything. smile