chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA
Boddrick wrote:

Some people might say that chords are "A Major" advantage when making music. I'd say they're just "A minor" advantage.

It becomes a dominant 7th advantage when someone is trying to explain a sound to you so that you know what they're talking about, but people have sustained professional careers while doing without. It's not necessary as a beginner, only time will tell if you need it later.

nickmaynard
Offline
rochester, ny
bitjacker wrote:

Music theory kills creativity.

Did it for you?

my.Explosion
Offline
Finland

The only thing I see it as (and am talking to you as a person with NO knowledge of music theory at all, I go by ear mostly) is that music theory helps in understanding the 'why' of things. You don't necessarily *need* it if you're not completely tone-deaf. But it helps. And I imagine that at some point or another it becomes a very valuable tool.

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America
my.Explosion wrote:

The only thing I see it as (and am talking to you as a person with NO knowledge of music theory at all, I go by ear mostly) is that music theory helps in understanding the 'why' of things. You don't necessarily *need* it if you're not completely tone-deaf. But it helps. And I imagine that at some point or another it becomes a very valuable tool.

Yes.

Mrwimmer
Offline
Los Angeles, CA
bitjacker wrote:

Music theory kills creativity.

Music theory does the exact opposite of killing creativity.

my.Explosion
Offline
Finland
bitjacker wrote:

Music theory kills creativity.

Well to a certain degree I can relate to this.
There's a noticeable dip in quality when one first starts to learn the intricate details of whatever it is one is doing. First when you're starting out you have that "stupid" confidence that only people who don't know what they are doing have, then a bit later you start to understand what the things were that you were fooling around with and this is where the low-point is. It makes the work one puts out worse, it affects motivation to do it and yes it does impact on creativity too. Because suddenly you're slammed in the face with thousands of rules that you didn't have before. You automatically hamper yourself to protect yourself from "failure" (which too is a valuable thing to do. Failing that is, if you're not failing, you're not learning).

But after that it gets better. And keeps going as long as one cares to. smile

Last edited by my.Explosion (Jun 21, 2013 6:59 pm)

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America
my.Explosion wrote:
bitjacker wrote:

Music theory kills creativity.

Well to a certain degree I can relate to this.
There's a noticeable dip in quality when one first starts to learn the intricate details of whatever it is one is doing. First when you're starting out you have that "stupid" confidence that only people who don't know what they are doing have, then a bit later you start to understand what the things were that you were fooling around with and this is where the low-point is. It makes the work one puts out worse, it affects motivation to do it and yes it does impact on creativity too. Because suddenly you're slammed in the face with thousands of rules that you didn't have before. You automatically hamper yourself to protect yourself from "failure" (which too is a valuable thing to do. Failing that is, if you're not failing, you're not learning).

But after that it gets better. And keeps going as long as one cares to. smile

You are on a roll, man.

I wonder if this is at play when an artist with a bangin' debut puts out their sophomore album and it's just really not that good because they (or their producers) are trying to repeat past success by following the "rules" of the previous album.

Last edited by SketchMan3 (Jun 21, 2013 7:15 pm)

Boddrick
Offline
Manchester, UK
chunter wrote:

It becomes a dominant 7th advantage when someone is trying to explain a sound to you so that you know what they're talking about, but people have sustained professional careers while doing without. It's not necessary as a beginner, only time will tell if you need it later.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that 'sustained' was deliberate, so well played sir.

my.Explosion wrote:

Because suddenly you're slammed in the face with thousands of rules that you didn't have before.

That's a good point. I think if someone just starting to learn theory were aware of that danger, though, and actively ignored the 'rules' they've learned until they're actually useful, it could be avoided. Also, even a very basic understanding of theory can help you out if you get stuck. It'll help you figure out decent key changes, chord progressions etc. for the next part of your song.

chunter
Offline
Brunswick, GA USA

They're not really rules, though, they're extremely well-worn guidelines. How many people have trouble speaking before they are taught grammar in school? Do you think about grammar every time your mouth opens to talk? Do you often break known rules of grammar when you speak?

Music theory is like that.

SuperBustySamuraiMonkey
Offline
Madriz, Supain

Welcome to the drama.

My only suggestion is do whatever you want to do and fuck tutorials and anybody else. I mean, learn the basics but fuck around with anything comes to your mind, chip or not.

my.Explosion
Offline
Finland
chunter wrote:

They're not really rules, though, they're extremely well-worn guidelines. How many people have trouble speaking before they are taught grammar in school? Do you think about grammar every time your mouth opens to talk? Do you often break known rules of grammar when you speak?

Music theory is like that.

Yeah. You got me. Didn't know what else to call it though. Guidelines, as you said, I guess works better. "Something you have to consider when you do something." Also speaking is mimicking sounds mostly, people can say things they don't even know how to spell or even what they mean.

Also, I think I left out that part I was going to write earlier that I find that this applies mostly to art and stuff. Music closely related in concept. Creating something. For example: I noticed this when I started drawing and painting seriously. There are a *lot* of things to consider. I didn't to begin with, and I can safely say I was happier to draw before I learned all that. I'm past that though, I'm a better artist thanks to that too.

This is only something I read into that idea "Music theory kills creativity". smile

SuperBustySamuraiMonkey
Offline
Madriz, Supain
nickmaynard wrote:
bitjacker wrote:

Music theory kills creativity.

Did it for you?

Playing devils advocate here: it did for me.


Playing the other advocate: it also helped me thru arrangement stuff, live singing, faster composing and basslines.

metropeak
Offline

Theory, just like learning anything new, can take a while to process before it becomes part of your working flow. In my opinion without it you can waste a lot more time wondering "why isn't this working". At the very least, knowing scales and chords is extremely useful. It's a tool just like any other piece of knowledge.

To say it kills creativity isn't really true, I think the problem people have is that music theory suddenly makes you take the music you're making a lot more seriously. No longer can you mess around and see what sounds good, suddenly you realise that you now have the same tools that the great song writers and composers use to make music. Now you begin holding yourself to higher and higher standards, which in general can make it harder to be creative - but music theory is just a small part of that - listening to music by other people can also have the same effect. A new blank score/project can become very intimidating.

Fudgers
Offline
Indiana

Now, speaking of music theory as a broad umbrella, I really don't see how you can compose recognizable music without any knowledge of theory.

It seems like a really ridiculous thing to dismiss if you're planning to make music even casually.

Last edited by Fudgers (Jun 21, 2013 9:07 pm)

defiantsystems
Offline
.FILTHadelphia
Fudgers wrote:

Now, speaking of music theory as a broad umbrella, I really don't see how you can compose recognizable music without any knowledge of theory.

I did it for years. I just learned chords and jammed.

It's good to learn the rules so you can break them.

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America
defiantsystems wrote:
Fudgers wrote:

Now, speaking of music theory as a broad umbrella, I really don't see how you can compose recognizable music without any knowledge of theory.

I did it for years. I just learned chords and jammed.

It's good to learn the rules so you can break them.

Technically you are putting theory into practice, you just don't know how or why except that it sounds good. Even if you just "learn chords', if you even know the names of those chords you can infer the relationships of the intervals by their lettering, or by where they are on the guitar/piano, etc. But I know the holes and flaws in this statement that I just made so no need to point them out. smile