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matt's mind

(this is not a 'for sale' thread, its for feedback on a hardware project which isn't a kitsch-bent product but a gifted update to an open design)



everybody!  i'm making this community a gift!  because this week is really bumming me out and I've been planning this for a while and i think its a good moment to do this and start this conversation.  and its the start of the weekend, i finally caught up to orders, and i've got the time for once to ramble.  also, maybe this will help get group-buying going in this community a little more.

WELL, WHAT IS IT?
its an update to the ziegler-hosted project everyone has grown familiar with (GB Cart Flasher project)!  this: http://www.reinerziegler.de/readplus.htm#GB_Flasher

essentially, this same level of technology with the addition of FRAM instead of the current SRAM design.

pretty straightforward.  this is all tested and working fine (except for two fly wires i need to fix), I need to wrap up this PCB and get the deets released, hopefully it can be of some use to this community and help rebuild some of the lost DIY spirit (at least what i perceive as a dwindled element, much of that being my fault in a lot of ways).

WHAT I NEED FROM YOU:
-- any special features you MUST have on a minimalist cartridge?  (nothing fancy…  i can't think of anything really but you guys are smart)
-- anything you do NOT want on the cart? 
-- LEDs….  OK, so, i put one on the PCB/schematic because it seems people really need their electronics to glow somehow.  for whatever reason.  if this must have more, talk me into it.  the one is in the schematic even though its simply just ON (GND, resistor, voltage), but i'm happy to do whatever.  (if you don't know how to add more, shame, and you should google that!)
-- i can't think of anything else, in terms of the schematic…  can you?

HUH, WHAT IS IT YOU'RE DOING AGAIN?:
-- revised schematic with FRAM (instead of SRAM + battery, etc).  it'll be PDF…  i don't use EAGLE for projects like this anymore and without a license the proprietary .sch files are sort of useless.  and they rely on my custom libraries.
-- this is non-USB, deal with it.  however, it will be compatible with all programmers which are designed to work with this style cart + GB Cart Flasher. 
-- the PCB layout is up to you guys, although i'll keep PCBs (my layout) and ICs (parts to make this) in stock, and would like to do some group-buys and keep it low cost.  in the long run, the PCB layout is the only thing I think i'm not spoon-feeding you, just like the existing project.
-- this is MBC5 based now, not a CPLD or FPGA or anything fancy.  i can find them NOS still, they can be pulled from the tons of games out there, and this skips having to worry about everyone buying a usb-blaster just to get their DIY cart programmed the first time.  to avoid one-use-purchases, basically.
-- as of right now no changes to the software are required, but if so, i'll release that under the same license as the original GB Cart Flasher software (which is required anyways, just fyi). 



so, please talk to me, and give me your thoughts!  this truly is for you guys, its such a helpful project and it deserves to be brought into modernity somewhat, at least to drop the battery, its something i've been playing around with since 2010/2011 too (with great success, just a dumbass mistake i made and sat on until the last couple months).  and its improper trying to make it a closed redesign when its not even my work to begin with (thanks two polish students!).  and like i said, it seems like we all need a little gift and a hug in a way, so its good timing.

hopefully herr ziegler hosts this too for the benefit of all.  thats in the plans (at least to submit this to his site for hosting alongside the original project)

at the very least, let me know if there is something i should address in the schematic other than the obvious.  i'm wanting to at least get feedback on this before finalizing everything and preparing this so its not messy, etc.  and doing the BOM and stuff.  the last things.

just fyi….  i'll be getting at least one PCB made with all of these last changes just to assure 100% the schematic is OK before anyone starts treating it like gospel and working off it.  so there is still some delay, although not much of one.  you get to chirp in right at the end, so please do!

(and, because i think it might come up, this is ENTIRELY separate from kk_gb_8m, which should be out any time now, so if you have questions about kitsch-bent business, please direct it to those threads.  not this one, because this isn't a kitsch-bent project i just happen to be kitsch)

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Madriz, Supain

I dont get most of what you say but the "no batteries" clause. Of course, that means Im all grateful for it, and ill be looking for those kits when they're ready.

As a nonelectronic guy (seriously, i cant even solder) let me say I couldnt care less for leds on a cart.

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matt's mind

thanks! 

actually, just writing 'no batteries' probably would have summed it up anyways wink

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Toronto, Ontario, Canada

For those of you with an old parallel port flasher, don't forget that USB parallel ports are dirt cheap and are generally compatible with the old cart flasher software.

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Florida

So basically this is another derp cart, or am I missing something?

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matt's mind

only if derp='no batteries'

this definitely doesn't drag (non-usb)

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Michigan

What I need to see in a cartridge is a modern-mass-produce flash rom memory IC.
No more ancient, obsolete, unavailable eeproms.

I am currently reading through the datasheet of this:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Spa … H3SLV1U%3d

16MBytes, 8-bit selectable. However, it runs on 2.7-3.6v. Easily achievable and still under value of the current 29f032 variants.

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Any chance we could have a switch and flip between FRAM chips?  If we lose the battery and reclaim the real estate, maybe we could squeeze another chip on it?  Just talking out loud.  Not sure if that is even possible.  Maybe have it as an option on the pcb where a jumper could be soldered if someone did not want the feature.  This might make it possible to have multiple LSDJ saves or another set of patches for mGB all you would need to do is switch and reboot.

On a personal note, may I commend you for all of the effort you put into your projects.  You always seem to raise the bar and yet still not let it go to your head. 
Very impressed.

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Michigan
DSC wrote:

Any chance we could have a switch and flip between FRAM chips?  If we lose the battery and reclaim the real estate, maybe we could squeeze another chip on it?  Just talking out loud.  Not sure if that is even possible.  Maybe have it as an option on the pcb where a jumper could be soldered if someone did not want the feature.  This might make it possible to have multiple LSDJ saves or another set of patches for mGB all you would need to do is switch and reboot.

On a personal note, may I commend you for all of the effort you put into your projects.  You always seem to raise the bar and yet still not let it go to your head. 
Very impressed.

There should be room enough for another footprint, but the FRAM chip is the most expensive components on the board AFAIK!

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Minneapolis
Jazzmarazz wrote:

What I need to see in a cartridge is a modern-mass-produce flash rom memory IC.
No more ancient, obsolete, unavailable eeproms.

I am currently reading through the datasheet of this:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Spa … H3SLV1U%3d

16MBytes, 8-bit selectable. However, it runs on 2.7-3.6v. Easily achievable and still under value of the current 29f032 variants.

Options are limited when you consider how the GB expects to be able to address the chip though.

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Jazzmarazz wrote:

There should be room enough for another footprint, but the FRAM chip is the most expensive components on the board AFAIK!

Yeah, if there was a jumper that could let you bypass it if you wanted to, that would be necessary to keep the cost down if you didn't want it.

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Matthew Joseph Payne

If anybody is gonna be all funky about more LEDs, maybe solder points for common places to add them would satiate the masses.

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Straya Mate

If your interested, I'd be more than happy to have my manufacturer whip up some boards up for testing purposes. Funded by me.

Though I will have to rebuild your schematic in eagle.

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Michigan
arfink wrote:
Jazzmarazz wrote:

What I need to see in a cartridge is a modern-mass-produce flash rom memory IC.
No more ancient, obsolete, unavailable eeproms.

I am currently reading through the datasheet of this:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Spa … H3SLV1U%3d

16MBytes, 8-bit selectable. However, it runs on 2.7-3.6v. Easily achievable and still under value of the current 29f032 variants.

Options are limited when you consider how the GB expects to be able to address the chip though.

Limited how?

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I know what I would want to see:
1) status LED for when flashing ROM to cart, or reading save. Something like that which has to do with flasher reading and writing.
2) solder pads opposite the board from said LED like the ASM carts so that those of us who strive for symmetry can solder in an identical LED
3) cases similar to the machine-cut Bleep Bloop cases that had the notch cut out (if possible)
4) Possibly multiple ROM banks (say, 2?) and definitely support for Little FM, second bank could be used like a redundant backup of songs if used WITH Little FM-patched LSDJ ROM
5) a means (perhaps a switch on top?) that could disable writing to SRAM. Good for things like screwed up saves, Pokemon cloning, and preventing mGB from overwriting any LSDJ info at startup (not sure if this is a real problem though). This is a pretty unneeded option really though.
6) socketed FRAM = multiple saves when using multiple FRAM chips? just a thought, not sure how easy that would be to implement, might work well with multiROM support
7) throught-hole leads that connect to FRAM and EEPROM in case someone wanted to make, say, a Raspberry Pi-based mobile cart flasher. Again, a bit of a stretch but something to think about.
8) if a custom case is engineered/cast for the PCB, it would be nice to see something that will feel stable in the GBA and GBA SP (SP's tend to wiggle and cause little LSDJ-seizures, for me).

I'll email you some other thoughts I have about other things wink great post, I love the crowd-sourcing approach you are bringing to the table smile

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Sweeeeeeden

So here's the problem. The only sane offers for 128 kB FRAM you can find is Ramtron's FM20L08. However, this chip is 3.3V only. Drag'n'derp solves this by using only 3.3V chips and using level shifters near the cartridge bus. This poses a problem for a genuine MBC5 cartridge since the MBC5 nominally wants a 5V supply, so you still need a bunch of level shifter chips if you want to do everything kosher. I personally still think FRAM is a bad tradeoff for this reason, unless you go the full way, like Abrasive did with Drag'n'derp.

A decently sized cartridge battery will last something like 10 years before it needs to be replaced. The only time having a cartridge battery is a problem is if the battery has a too low capacity, or you choose an SRAM chip which is not meant for battery applications (not low power) so that it drains the battery too quickly. The typical will suffer from RAM corruption for other reasons before the battery runs dry.