qb
Offline
Arad, Romania
boomlinde wrote:
qb wrote:

You can't as far as I can tell. C64 trackers don't have accurate tempo (it fluctuates over time)

They are rock solid. There is definitely no fluctuation in Goat Tracker (a few microseconds jitter at each tick at worst), but perhaps if you compare the tempo to the closest integer bpm they are drifting by comparison. What makes you say that tempo fluctuates?

Well, I'm no expert, but a tracker composer confirmed this to me months ago. I tried to sample patterns from a tracker module and I couldn't find a matching tempo (this is not a problem with samples that have accurate tempo). I was told that old trackers have tempos like that and basically most modern trackers have this problem too because they are based on old technology.

I tried to put a drum track over it as a start, and it synced for a few seconds, and then it went off-beat. Try it yourself. Sample a whole pattern from a MOD, XM, or even SID song (something reasonably long) and try to find a matching tempo in a DAW (don't adjust the sample with any plugins though). It doesn't work.

sandneil
Offline
qb wrote:
Jellica wrote:

anyone know how to work out tempo on goattracker using x5 speed?

You can't as far as I can tell. C64 trackers don't have accurate tempo (it fluctuates over time). A lot or most PC trackers have this problem too.

no lol

sandneil
Offline

it works fine http://8bitcollective.biz/$/temp/radix% … eminem.mp3

Limitbreak
Offline
Arizona

I never had problems syncing my gameboy and my laptop together. I've done some improvisational stuff with a computer playing drum samples and I play melodies over it with the gameboy simply by pressing the start button at the right time.

qb
Offline
Arad, Romania

Hardly proof to contest what I said. I'm well aware you can alter the samples in DAWs like Ableton. I'm talking about finding the real tempo of a tracker song, in a DAW. It simply doesn't work. Try it yourself with no tweaks.

Edit: @Limitbreak The Game Boy might be able to tell time\tempo better. I'm talking about C64, Amiga, and PC trackers.

Last edited by qb (Jan 14, 2014 5:27 pm)

Limitbreak
Offline
Arizona

Yeah I just noticed you were talking about computer and PC trackers, sorry. I misread and thought you meant all trackers on old hardware.

HeavyW8bit
Offline
Parts Unkown
qb wrote:

I tried to sample patterns from a tracker module and I couldn't find a matching tempo..

Was the tracker playing back on an emulator or the original hardware?

I was under the impression that most trackers use a Frame based routine when playing back on the original hardware.  So as long as the screen keeps refreshing constantly at 50 or 60 times a second, then the tempo should be consistent I would guess. 

Jellica wrote:

anyone know how to work out tempo on goattracker using x5 speed?

I believe a speed of 5x in Goattracker would wait 5 refreshes of the screen before moving on to the next step.

qb
Offline
Arad, Romania

Well, this is dumb. I just used OpenMPT to "approximate" the tempo of a module to real BPM and it totally worked. The tempo seems consistent. I don't know why I wasn't able to figure it out before.

Edit: That was me sampling an XM song. I tried the same thing with a MOD and it just doesn't work. OpenMPT can't even calculate the exact BPM. We need some experts on this.

Last edited by qb (Jan 14, 2014 6:04 pm)

4mat
Offline

OpenMPT has a true bpm mode that is exact, see here.  But it only works on it's own file format.

Last edited by 4mat (Jan 14, 2014 9:07 pm)

boomlinde
Offline
Sweden
qb wrote:

I tried to put a drum track over it as a start, and it synced for a few seconds, and then it went off-beat. Try it yourself. Sample a whole pattern from a MOD, XM, or even SID song (something reasonably long) and try to find a matching tempo in a DAW (don't adjust the sample with any plugins though). It doesn't work.

What makes you draw the conclusion that this drifting has anything to do with fluctuation? Let me guess, it steadily goes further and further off-beat. It's simply an indication that you couldn't match the tempo correctly. C64 songs and Amiga modules are usually played rock solidly synced to the TV output signal, accurate within a couple of cycles of jitter. If there is any fluctuation then, it's clock drift which is unlikely to cause audible drifting within a few seconds. In my experience you have to deal with very small fractions of BPM to get it right; Amiga frame/tick rate in PAL isn't exactly 50 Hz, but can be very close in some graphics modes, which could explain why you are having problems with .mod in particular. I would guess the C64 is off of 50 Hz by some tiny fraction as well.

Last edited by boomlinde (Jan 14, 2014 10:43 pm)

DESUMATE
Offline
calmdownkidder wrote:

Anything slower than 1000bpm is pathetic and not real music.

dat extratone

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America

You guys stop dancing around the mulberry bush: The tempos of these formats that you think "fluctuate" merely have fractions/decimal places involved which means they won't match up to a whole number BPM like 150.00 but more like 150.350931409420498480934093248093248304823490834

okay.

4mat
Offline

well, yeah boomlinde just said that.

token
Offline

what-ever feels right

in a sense this is exactly like asking  'whats ur fave genre? :- ) i like dubstep genre ' since tempo can usually define a genre

qb
Offline
Arad, Romania
boomlinde wrote:
qb wrote:

I tried to put a drum track over it as a start, and it synced for a few seconds, and then it went off-beat. Try it yourself. Sample a whole pattern from a MOD, XM, or even SID song (something reasonably long) and try to find a matching tempo in a DAW (don't adjust the sample with any plugins though). It doesn't work.

What makes you draw the conclusion that this drifting has anything to do with fluctuation? Let me guess, it steadily goes further and further off-beat. It's simply an indication that you couldn't match the tempo correctly. C64 songs and Amiga modules are usually played rock solidly synced to the TV output signal, accurate within a couple of cycles of jitter. If there is any fluctuation then, it's clock drift which is unlikely to cause audible drifting within a few seconds. In my experience you have to deal with very small fractions of BPM to get it right; Amiga frame/tick rate in PAL isn't exactly 50 Hz, but can be very close in some graphics modes, which could explain why you are having problems with .mod in particular. I would guess the C64 is off of 50 Hz by some tiny fraction as well.

Well, OK, but that is just as bad if it is hard or next to impossible to get it right.

SketchMan3
Offline
NC in the US of America

Hey let's make things more interesting.

What is your favorite rubato tempo modulation? What is your favorite swing/groove. How far off from the "2" and the "4" do you like to put your snare to get that off-beat feel?

Last edited by SketchMan3 (Jan 15, 2014 5:21 pm)