how does the mouse cursor works on pocket chip? i know the screen is a touch device but are there any USB ports to plug an external mouse? or maybe you have to use bluetooth devices?

It has a touch screen. But most of the time I just use one of those keyboard and mouse sets with an usb dongle. The built in keyboard is ok if you're on the road and don't have to type much. Writing a whole  scene or game on pico-8 quickly becomes hell though.

koub1s: Yeah it's a native Android app. It's terrible to use, though. (Is it even possible to have an usable tracker with no keyboard?)

bod: Does the audio skip on your CHIP? You can see the console for alsa error messages (pcm buffer underrun etc.)

I had a quick play around at making a loop, and a few things stuck out to me:

* Would be great to be able to play notes from the macro field, so you can tweak and then play
* shortcuts for jumping directly to specific panels - eg jump to macro panel then back to not panel - would be useful
* it's really painful to edit using a mac keyboard unfortunately due to things like backspace but no delete key... Wondering what the best way to solve this would be.. a separate set of shortcuts you can switch to?
* Some indication of the waveform would be super useful

I really like the way this is headed though.. super minimal, but good breadth of sound! Reminded me of LSDJ a bit ... in a good way!

kometbomb wrote:

bod: Does the audio skip on your CHIP? You can see the console for alsa error messages (pcm buffer underrun etc.)

Exactly. Buffer underrun occurs.

ALSA lib pcm.c:7843:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occurred

And my two cents:

* Would be great to be able to play notes from the macro field, so you can tweak and then play

Just type some stuff in and let it play. Then it's just a keypress away from listening and you already know what the sound of the line instead of just a single note will be.

* shortcuts for jumping directly to specific panels - eg jump to macro panel then back to not panel - would be useful

I'm with you there. It would be nice to have. Not a must for me personal though.

* it's really painful to edit using a mac keyboard unfortunately due to things like backspace but no delete key... Wondering what the best way to solve this would be.. a separate set of shortcuts you can switch to?

I just had a quick look and only proceeding my second coffe, but from what I see, all the bindings are in MainEditor.cpp. So just editing and recompiling should solve it. But don't take this as a full advice, as I'm _not_ a coder.

* Some indication of the waveform would be super useful

Like a graphical represantation of the stuff you're writing? Dunno if this is really a good idea as this helps you understand how the process actually works. If you've made your first 10-20 instruments in goattracker or something you'll get to know what the numbers mean and understand them. So it's more of a benefit, than just blindly rely on some graphics, imho.

It feels like a lot like SidWizard at the moment. And I love SidWizard. So no complaints from my side. smile

mk: Some of those are already fixed but I have been lazy to update the web version. Will update tonight!

Shortcuts: good idea. You can use the mouse in the mean time to jump to an editor.

Missing keys: I take it that Fn+DEL (or whatever the combination is) is too cumbersome to use or does it simply do nothing? I agree that mac keyboards are crap for getting things done when you know what you are doing.

I am looking at this tiny portable keyboard I would like to get to use with my PocketCHIP but it also misses the cursor keys (it's TINY... and cute). So, I am thinking maybe there could be a compact mode where there's only one octave at Q-2-W-3.etc.-U and you can use IJKL as the cursor keys. And the right side could have the O key for insert and P for delete and so on since they are now unused.

Waveforms: There's a wave "browser" that has a grid of all the waveforms. I need to put that in somehow.

>Is it even possible to have an usable tracker with no keyboard?

komet, did you try nanoloop on android or ios?
i also like the way dotpict works (it's a pixel art app on android),

you have to adapt to the touch interface, i think both of those apps have a good approach:

you select the place you want to interact with by touching it (a note on nanoloop, a pixel on dotpict) and then you touch/slide elsewhere (usually an empty spot of the screen) to finetune it (you slide on nanoloop to choose the correct note, frequency, on dotpict to change the color of the pixel).

it's hard to interact with something when you have your finger on it, so it's better to have a zone to select, and another zone to play with,

how could it work with a tracker? some ideas,

if the regular interface use a 4:3 ratio, you have an empty spot you can fill for the 16:9 ratio of the phone like in the screenshot you posted,

i like the idea of having the undo/redo button because you makes lots of mistakes on phones, and/or you can quickly experiment stuff and revert to the previous state

so you touch the spot you want to edit, example the note, or several notes if you make a selection,
- 2 icons appears (in the option area, check the pic above): note/scale, by default on note
- if your selection is empty a single tap on the finetune_area set a default note ; if you touch and slide you change the note according to your position

you can manage copy/paste with that finetune_area:
- if you keep touching the note/selection of notes, and double tap on the finetune_area it copies it,
- if you double tap the the finetune_area, it paste the clipboard on the spot you're currently located

koub1s: I see what you mean: dotpict is surprisingly nice to use with the two-finger approach. I wonder if I could combine adding support for a gamepad (LSDj style) and a similar approach with touch screens with a context sensitive side panel as in your mockup, use the d-pad/left finger to select what you edit and then A/B/right finger to actually change the value. Thanks for the ideas!

Oh.. function & delete..

It's also that `control` is not a common key to use - there's the command key which takes precedence - so I keep getting lost trying to copy/paste or whatever. Funciton keys are also usually used for things like itunes play / pause, volume... I'm going to look into the shortcuts in the source code and have a play around to see if I can come up with a few alternatives.

yeah a gamepad could be good, i don't like touch interfaces that much, i really wish the stylus would be more common on phones hmm

i saw a tons of tutorials for protracker on youtube (but none for prototracker!) any recommended ones that can be applied to both sofwares? since they are quite similar (?).

Last edited by koub1s (Apr 22, 2017 8:11 pm)

There are a ton of styluses for phones... no need to wish.. choose your pick, lol

koub1s wrote:

>Is it even possible to have an usable tracker with no keyboard?

komet, did you try nanoloop on android or ios?
i also like the way dotpict works (it's a pixel art app on android),

you have to adapt to the touch interface, i think both of those apps have a good approach:

you select the place you want to interact with by touching it (a note on nanoloop, a pixel on dotpict) and then you touch/slide elsewhere (usually an empty spot of the screen) to finetune it (you slide on nanoloop to choose the correct note, frequency, on dotpict to change the color of the pixel).

it's hard to interact with something when you have your finger on it, so it's better to have a zone to select, and another zone to play with,

how could it work with a tracker? some ideas,

if the regular interface use a 4:3 ratio, you have an empty spot you can fill for the 16:9 ratio of the phone like in the screenshot you posted,

i like the idea of having the undo/redo button because you makes lots of mistakes on phones, and/or you can quickly experiment stuff and revert to the previous state

so you touch the spot you want to edit, example the note, or several notes if you make a selection,
- 2 icons appears (in the option area, check the pic above): note/scale, by default on note
- if your selection is empty a single tap on the finetune_area set a default note ; if you touch and slide you change the note according to your position

you can manage copy/paste with that finetune_area:
- if you keep touching the note/selection of notes, and double tap on the finetune_area it copies it,
- if you double tap the the finetune_area, it paste the clipboard on the spot you're currently located

I've gotta say, you're on the right track with that overlay. The undo/redo are a good thing to have right in front. You make accidental edits a lot with a touch screen.

What I have learned is that making portable software is not about getting it running but trying to somehow satisfy all platforms and their weird UI conventions...

I guess I'll start with an undo feature, it's useful in any case!

koub1s: I don't think editing in Prototracker is much different from Protracker, except for the sequence editor. You basically work in the pattern editor and keep hitting right CTRL to test the pattern. smile

Last edited by kometbomb (Apr 23, 2017 6:53 am)

>>The undo/redo are a good thing to have right in front.

yes except if you really know what you're doing and/or don't like experimenting, the ctrl+s / revert-shortcut, ctrl+z/ctrl+y  are like the most common combo you'll use yikes and on phones if you have to long touch, or swipe on the side to reach an option, you're slowing your workflow so much, it's really frustrating,

>>What I have learned is that making portable software is not about getting it running but trying to somehow satisfy all platforms and their weird UI conventions...

yes it's why people like consoles so much! fixed resolution, same hardware, etc, i think that's why i like pico8, you don't have to loose time with choosing anything, you have "this", it's not much, but do your best.

>> I don't think editing in Prototracker is much different from Protracker, except for the sequence editor. You basically work in the pattern editor and keep hitting right CTRL to test the pattern.

thanks i'll check youtube then smile
if you can make a video like the one you did for klytracker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a1xCkPPabM
i think it would help beginners a lot (just basic, stuff, the song doesnt have to be good or anything),
Having more song examples helps too,

OK, I'll try to make a somewhat useful video with the very basics!

As I stated above, it indeed feels a lot like SidWizard and also Protracker (minus the nasty panning). The several UI conventions are especially a reason I like Klystrack and Prototracker. They're doing their job and doing it good. Without the fancy "please take my hand"-features.

I'm looking forward to see a touch screen gui coming to life, as I can't think of a way to sustain a time efficient workflow with it. At least I've never seen a good one.