Decktonic
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Westfield, NJ
kineticturtle wrote:

Image is rarely cited outright, but seems to be relevant in terms of wanting to be involved in a "scene".

Yeah I know this is off on a tangent but when Nullsleep was comparing the chip scene to the punk scene of the 90s in RTP, it kinda bothered me, because I kept thinking to myself, "oh great, people are gonna get into this just because it's 'alt' and 'underground,' not because they have much of an appreciation for the music." Not that I disagree with his point, but yeah... there's an "image" aspect underlying it all; an opportunity to be part of something underground, to get some street cred, to be able to point two middle fingers at all the douchebags playing guitars and drums and say "I'M COOLER THAN YOU BECAUSE I MADE ALL THIS ON 1 GAMEBOY." Stuff like that.

Also, on the subject of nostalgia, there are quite a few users on 8bc/cm.org that when asked, "why do you make chipmusic," cited nostalgia as one reason. I'll say that it's one of the reasons I started listening to chipmusic, but not one of the reasons I started trying to make it myself. As for the outsider that listens to this stuff but is not a musician by any means, the nostalgia is definitely a factor in their interest. I saw one of those stick-figure-meme-images from Reddit a while back in reference to Anamanaguchi that said something like:

1. Hmm, what should I listen to today?
2. Oh look, Anamanaguchi. Never heard of 'em. *play*
3. !! They combined rock music with videogame nostalgia !!
4. IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE

So yeah, even if it's not why we make the music, it can certainly be a big selling point. As I said before, I want people to like the music for other reasons, and I want to make music that *doesn't* sound like it should be in a videogame, but you get what I mean.

egr
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Abandoned on Fire

The only time limitations occur to me is as a listener, i.e. "wow, they really squeezed the last drop out of the [insert platform]."  When I'm the writer, I never feel like I'm doing nearly enough with whatever platform I'm using.  Actually, maybe the idea of their being limitations is a motivator for me to see if I can reach them?  If I were interested in more "classical" compositions this might not be the case, however.

Last edited by egr (Feb 11, 2011 3:07 pm)

trough
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Decktonic wrote:

1. Hmm, what should I listen to today?
2. Oh look, Anamanaguchi. Never heard of 'em. *play*
3. !! They combined rock music with videogame nostalgia !!
4. IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE


It's Super Effective (May 1, 2009) [44/365] by Brenderous, on Flickr

Personally, I didn't even know that this was a "scene." I thought it was obscure and very geeky (probably in a bad way). I write chiptune because I love the sound of basic waveforms. And because Famitracker is free, while Reason is not. Old sound chips are their own type of instrument, which sounds particularly cool to me.

Last edited by trough (Feb 11, 2011 4:22 pm)

kineticturtle
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Matthew Joseph Payne

It's the sounds that attracted me too. When I originally got into it, I was getting started as a composition student in college, and it added a nice palette of sounds to what I had available.

The limitations of various hardware platforms are not really any more extreme than those of, say, a string quartet. In fact, in some ways LSDJ is like a string quartet where the two violinists have an 8 octave range, one of them can also play the bass drum and make funny noises, and the violist can make their viola sound like a bunch of other instruments or can talk or play drums, but the cellist can only gurgle and press the bow really hard on the strings to make it squeak. When you're coming from the perspective of writing for human performer, the ability to take a "player" and have them switch instantly from one thing to another is super powerful.

Decktonic wrote:

there's an "image" aspect underlying it all; an opportunity to be part of something underground, to get some street cred, to be able to point two middle fingers at all the douchebags playing guitars and drums and say "I'M COOLER THAN YOU BECAUSE I MADE ALL THIS ON 1 GAMEBOY." Stuff like that.

Yeah, that's definitely a thing. Ironically, when one attempts to use chiptunes to be hip outside of the scene, it usually doesn't work (see "worst reactions to chiptunes" thread for more info), yet people often seem to keep thinking it will.

Of course there are positive elements to being part of a scene - the camaraderie and support from just being part of a forum like this is a great example.

Zen Albatross
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Brooklyn, NY
Decktonic wrote:

an opportunity to be part of something underground, to get some street cred, to be able to point two middle fingers at all the douchebags playing guitars and drums and say "I'M COOLER THAN YOU BECAUSE I MADE ALL THIS ON 1 GAMEBOY."

If anyone is getting two middle fingers pointed at them, it's definitely not the millions of bands that use guitars & drums. Nor is it the electronic musician that [performs and composes using thousands of $ worth of gear -- It's the retailers, advertisers, corporations and other profit-driven entities that have convinced us, over time, that the only way you can have a chance at being successful as a musician is to spend lots of money on equipment.

I think this feeling of pride in making subversive use of a piece of hardware goes much deeper than the alternative "image" produced as a result. It's a necessary, healthy and inspiring reaction to years and years of being told that we need X, Y and Z in order to be on a level playing field -- X, Y and Z all being money.

I think chip musicians ARE on a level playing field, and I think that needs to be celebrated as a vital part of the music itself. As much as it may seem at times like boast and rhetoric, I think it's this quality in particular that really inspires most people to push their work to the absolute maximum. And the most common results of that effort, in my observations, is unique experiences & good music, which is precisely why (I would hope) we came to chip music in the first place.

Last edited by Zen Albatross (Feb 11, 2011 4:37 pm)

trough
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Very well said, Zen Albatross. That is a great point.

BR1GHT PR1MATE
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BOSTON
Zen Albatross wrote:

If anyone is getting two middle fingers pointed at them [...] it's the retailers, advertisers, corporations and other profit-driven entities that have convinced us, over time, that the only way you can have a chance at being successful as a musician is to spend lots of money on equipment.

This is a massive point for me personally. I can't stand the commodification and fetishization of, say, guitars. The ability to create a huge, complex sound-world at (essentially) zero cost is unbelievably, unimaginably awesome. And the fact that my hardware is either RECYCLED (!?) or home-made in small batches... it just fits the zeitgeist like a glove for me.

I hate money and I hate corporations, and my experience is that chiptune is certainly punk in that regard.

herr_prof
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Unsubscribe

I just want to say that I eventually love guitars and detunes square waves, and it doesn't matter how many shitty derivative bands there are out there, none will make me stop loving these two things. /me posts a hipster Ariel.

Note!
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Brooklon
godinpants wrote:

limitation isn't a concept, but choosing to work within limitation is.

You're right there. But limitation isn't a concept when you aren't limiting yourself within the boundaries of your chosen medium. I would say that the example of the single-channel track is a good example of limitation as a concept since you are creating limitations within a medium. However, simply using a limited platform doesn't assume you are embracing limitations in the conceptual sense. When I write something in LSDJ, I rarely place limits on how I write. The choice of platform and it's limitations inform the way I write however the concept of limitation is almost never present (or if it is, it's buried deep in my subconscious or some shit.) And I'll leave that conversation there.

godinpants wrote:

But your expectations would change?

This is something you only have partial control over. If an artist makes the conscious decision to tell you that "thiz dope track iz singul chanl, yall" then they are essentially forcing you to recalibrate your critique with regards to technicality - but your creative critique should be no different.

godinpants wrote:

This is what i see whenever some chip musician is asked how they produce their music.
As soon as you say "i make music on a gameboy" people change their expectations. I admit that's a bit different, but it feels like sometimes people use the whole "its a gameboy" idea to justify their work. Much in the same way limitations are always brought up.

Yeah, this is a touchy subject. I don't usually immediately tell people I make music using gameboys precisely because of the reaction I know it'll elicit. Instead I just invite them to a show I'm going to or something along those lines and let them figure it out on their own. This comes back to the last thing we were talking about. If you tell people from the get go that you made a single-channel track, they adjust their thinking immediately. In my experience, if you tell people you make music on gameboys from the start, you get a certain kind of response - not usually the one I'm going for since I'm not necessarily all about CHIP-IZ-PUNK-IN-YOR-FACE. But answering the question differently often leads to an actual conversation.

I don't know if this has been brought up before now, but another aspect of chip music that has always been a big winner (and it is, in a way, tied to limitation) for me is the complete control I feel over the writing process - especially in terms of organization. I know where everything is when I write in LSDJ or Adlib or MaxYMiser or whatever and it's all very quickly and easily accessible. The setup is practically nonexistent as is the take-down. This hyper-control over my musical environment is huge. And I don't feel it when I use Ableton. Having made a lot of music with many different instruments (electronic and acoustic), I can tell you that the interaction I have from sitting down and booting up LSDJ to powering down and walking away is a million times better and more organized than many other experiences I've had. (That being said, I haven't been very lucky in terms of UIs - DX7s can suckit.) I would guess that much of this user experience is tied to design choices made and influenced by limitations put in place by the hardware (I don't actually know about that one since I don't know C or how Johan went about making the choices he did in terms of UI).

Oh and everything Zen Albatross said.

Jay Tholen
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Florida
BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:
Zen Albatross wrote:

If anyone is getting two middle fingers pointed at them [...] it's the retailers, advertisers, corporations and other profit-driven entities that have convinced us, over time, that the only way you can have a chance at being successful as a musician is to spend lots of money on equipment.

This is a massive point for me personally. I can't stand the commodification and fetishization of, say, guitars. The ability to create a huge, complex sound-world at (essentially) zero cost is unbelievably, unimaginably awesome. And the fact that my hardware is either RECYCLED (!?) or home-made in small batches... it just fits the zeitgeist like a glove for me.

I hate money and I hate corporations, and my experience is that chiptune is certainly punk in that regard.

Good point! While I'm not a purist and load my junk with any sound I can think of... I think I do it in the same spirit. This community has done much to help me realize the potential of my thrifty little 'studio.' Gives you a sort of contentedness with what you've already got... which kinda opens up a new world of creative freedom.

yar.songs
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...

Last edited by yar.songs (Nov 2, 2023 12:32 pm)

VxJasonxV
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Castle Rock, CO

This conversation happens in most communities at one point or another. I don't think anyone's surprised that it's happening. (And I'm sure it's far from the first time, either. Hello RTP disc 2.)

Those in the community best each other technically. For better or worse. Those with a point to prove strive for the best. Point out the ways that they are far superior to $individual(s)_they_dislike. Alternatively, non-drama types point out the ways they differentiate themselves from $invidual(s)_they_like in order to enlarge the talent pool.

Those out of the community pay attention to whatever they care about paying attention to. "I've used a Gameboy before and that's all this is. COOL!" "They play an actual instrument too. COOL!". (P.S. I heart Visuals too. A great experience on both mediums proves the skill of all involved.)

And even those not in the community as an artist, who talk about those in the community regarding their own personal preferences. Again, whether they care more about "pure technical excellence" (1x DMG only, 2x tops), or those who mash it up and create something spectacular on top of a sound that we all have come to enjoy. It's the same situation outside the community as it is inside for individuals who care enough (yo dawg...).

[/wax poetic]

I remember something very specific in my last community (dancing games!), those of us who wanted to be the best always picked the hardest songs we were trying to improve our scores on, but those who were actually playing just for fun, even on the easiest difficulty? They drew the crowds. Only a small number of people who were engaged in the game enough to care would actually talk to the individuals who played as hard as they could, and watch entire songs be played.


tl;dr: This community rocks. You do it for reasons that matter to you. GO YOU! We listen to things we like for the reasons that matter to us. You'll have fans forever.

Last edited by VxJasonxV (Feb 12, 2011 12:27 am)

ionustron
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Alright I'll bite.

The reason I did chipcovers was partly technical, partly because I (still!) love the warm buzz of simple soundwaves and I've always been curious how various songs would feel through that texture. These days, I just wish to build up an extremely small extremely powerful set of instruments and style for when I get to making a game down the road. Covering gives a simple excuse to do so. While I realize this is self-defeating when I'm not focused on writing original music, composition be damned if in the end it ends up sounding like nostalgic Konami drums or Amiga patches and gurgles, etc.

I don't really care that much about parties or live shows, though I should get around to seeing one...

Last edited by ionustron (Feb 12, 2011 1:23 am)

El Huesudo II
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I do feel limitations are a very good part of chipmusic. Being limited forces you to keep it simple and to the point instead of going all over the place, and contrary to what many people believe, keeping it as simple as possible makes some of the best music around.

danimal cannon
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buffalo, NY

What attracts me to chip is the same thing that attracted me to videogame music in general. 

The specific limitations of old chip stuff, specifically limited number of monophonic channels... LEND themselves to arrangements that are extremely melodic.   A lot of music today is devoid of melody (obviously not COMPLETELY).  Vocals tend to be as close as you get, guitars tend to just play chords.  Movie scores... look at John Williams stuff, anyone can hum the melody to Indiana Jones or Superman, can you hum the melody to any movie score made in the last 10 years? 

Obviously chip has graduated into having its own aesthetic, but the original limitations just lent themselves to such fantastic melodic arrangements, since you couldn't count on having HUGE DRUMS and guitars, and sexy chords had to be implied.

gizmo
Offline
california
nitro2k01 wrote:

BTW, the same argument could be applied to acoustic guitar players. Are they in it for the limitations?

Exactly. The lack of limitations given by a DAW is a far weirder thing than the limitation of lsdj etc...ya know?

I don't know why other people make or listen to this shit. But there is definitely an aesthetic created these limits. Initially the fast arpeggios of chip music were just a necessity..but now people kind of expect it to some degree. The aesthetic can be emulated though.