17

(34 replies, posted in Collaborations)

Charlottesville Virginia checking in.

RG wrote:
InversePhase wrote:

just realism

InversePhase wrote:

The average Joe doesn't need to know my itemized shopping list.

Am I missing something here?

Yes. You're missing the part where jbuonacc (or anyone else for that matter) asked me outright to specify where every dollar of the money is going, because no one has actually done that yet. I've already covered the major points on the kickstarter itself.

You can save yourself the trouble of asking by checking out this thread over on ETS (which has a NIN fan forum). Read a little bit more bashing (which I understand might be on your agenda) or skip ahead to this post where I make my first appearance and explain some of the costs a little more in-depth (look for the big quote box). Note that I completely leave out hardware over there because I already hit the amount. If you can be arsed, feel free to google up some of the aforementioned items and add them to the running total.

jbuonacc wrote:

well, i'm at least glad to see it's working out for you. hopefully the end product will be to everyone's liking.

Me too, on both counts.

jbuonacc wrote:

not sure i understand the need for licensing, i don't think anyone would go after you if you put this out for free. i'm guessing Nullsleep didn't have any problems with his Depeche Mode MegaMix. how many cover albums have been done in the community already, with no backlash? and how many do you actually think will sell? aren't the licensing costs based on how many copies you sell? i'm wondering how much this will actually cost you in the long run.

Just because they (Nullsleep or any other artist) didn't get licensing doesn't mean it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. How many of the tribute albums have actually been well-promoted (and I mean "heavily", not just a few blogs or people spreading them around), and have you noticed that most chip tributes are shorter than a real album or not specifically singling out an album? Nullsleep's DM tribute is 14 minutes, and while I applaud that, I'm going for over an hour of NIN here; all of one specific album.

Problem is, if you promote to get yourself out there -- which you want to do as a musician by the way -- there's a chance of getting popular. If your repertoire includes covers and there's any chance of you making money from that, a label/artist/whatever could feel threatened, or want a cut. Others feel honored by tributes and covers. You don't think anyone will go after you, but you also don't know they won't. Even if your intentions are good, they might think you portrayed them in a poor way or get upset by a shitty cover job. The best ways to avoid trouble are to (1) get in touch with the artist and/or label and state your intent, and (2) pay for compulsory licensing (a la royalties). Sometimes if you do #1, you can get it in writing that you don't need to do #2, but you can also do #2 if you can't get in touch with the necessary individuals.

I figured based on the popularity of my previous work that this'd be at least mildly successful. That is, originally I thought I could move more than a hundred units. Now, with 128 backers (nice round number) in three weeks, I know that at least this many people were able to find out about it and want one, so, theory confirmed. If I'm gonna play this stuff at shows and sell it on CD, I want to be clear to do so, and I don't want any element of uncertainty. I've been making every effort I can to contact everyone involved. That way there's no surprises for me or them.

jbuonacc wrote:

i bring up Bit Shifter because i already *know* that he does quality work (next level, really), and based on his 'Horror Business' cover i'd love to hear a full album of that stuff.

EDIT: listening to your 80s covers now. pretty nice for the most part, i dig the take on New Year's Day (hate the 'punny' titles though).

That's just fine, but (as you may have just discovered) my body of work is merely a few clicks away and you can judge for yourself whether it's good or not. I appreciate the compliments on NYD.

Sorry about the puns. I do that as a favor to the original musician so that my track is not accidentally mistaken for the real track if, for example, my name is removed from the filename or something. Also, it demonstrates that I am not trying to take credit for the original track or title. As a nice side bonus, when you inevitably torrent it later (arr, matey), at least an RIAA bot won't nail you.

jbuonacc wrote:

this just seems like a bit of a gamble, and based on the example i'm not so sure how it'll turn out. i'm a big NIN fan going back to when Broken came out (hell, i went to Woodstock in '94 just to see them), so i'm interested in hearing what you come up with. good luck either way.

You know what, I am 100% okay with that. It is totally okay to be uncertain. I've just never known someone to be so vocally and outspokenly uncertain to the point of naysaying. =]

It's going on bandcamp when it's done. You'll be able to listen to it in its entirety without giving me a dime.

jbuonacc wrote:

i do think it's funny though, especially when you say the money will be going towards older systems for the production of the album. maybe i should do up my own Kickstarter saying that i plan to cover 'Led Zeppelin IV' using only a Moog Modular and a TR-808. my goal would be to raise $12,000 to buy the Moog and 808, license the tracks, and then print up a few CDs and t-shirts. smile do you see how this looks like a bit of a cash grab?

Hey, if you want to cover all of IV, I say follow your dreams and go for it, but since you're being sarcastic to prove your point, I'll go ahead and address it. You're exaggerating my existing figures, and it's not favoring either point in the right direction. I don't expect favoritism, just realism. So, let's get to it:

First, $12k is over four times what I'm asking for. I'm don't need money to get actual machines, and nowhere do I actually state that. I already have an A8 to do my Atari tracks on, and a C64 to play my C64 tracks on, etc. Being able to connect stuff to my PC for part of the project would be nice. Or, having an XF551 that doesn't look like someone tried to put a slice of bologna in it would also be good. Barring that, how about a laptop battery because the one I have now is failing? The average Joe doesn't need to know my itemized shopping list. I chose not to inundate everyone with it.

Second, over a hundred is not "a few". Three is. I'll even let you exaggerate that to a "few dozen", which I am still exceeding with the kickstarter. I go to events probably somewhere on average of once a month. While I don't sell enough to pay the bills, I do sell a few, and I'd sure like to be able to pay bills with that some day.

Hey Nick, good to see you buddy.

nickmaynard wrote:

Can I ask how you promoted your kickstarter? I know a few people that have tried to do the kickstarter thing and didn't make their goals. I'm curious what the difference is between a successful kickstarter attempt and a failed one.

Twitter, facebook, etc. To be perfectly blunt, I think the short answer is that you need a decent network of people that give a shit. A fanbase. They are into what you do, they want to be a part of it, and they follow through. I'm pleased to have the folks I do, they're good people. I won't lie and say that knowing a few other key individuals didn't help. Being nice goes a long way. Notice nowhere in here did I say "having a project that is worth doing". Because that's not up for you to decide, especially if you're still trying to figure that out, unless it's worth it for you to do it all by yourself without any reward.

nickmaynard wrote:

Also, this is NOT intended to be a slight at all, but what do you think motivated so many people to donate so much cash to this? I mean, I wouldn't pay $150 dollars for a cd and tshirt of my favorite bands. So much money, man.

Again, no offense taken. I guess some people took the project to heart. Maybe some think it's a really great idea. I'll probably survey them at the end and ask, because I do know a bunch of people that pledged, but definitely not all of them. Also, while some wouldn't, there are still a lot of people that would plunk down $20 for a shirt or special edition CD or something, especially with free shipping. You're not them, and they're not you. Realising they exist is a good first step. =]

jbuonacc wrote:

see, and then you get all weird about it. boo f'ing hoo.

I guess I was looking too hard for what I asked for, which is constructive feedback on the track.

I didn't want to have to justify/defend/whatever the project. I'm a NIN fan with (as you say) good intentions. I'm doing this for me and also for numerous people that asked me to do it. I set the topic the way I did because often "give me feedback" requests don't really get a lot of response and I figured I'd try something different. I guess I learned my lesson on that one, eh?

jbuonacc wrote:

you want mass distribution? put it up on a filesharing network for free download. why *exactly* does anyone need a hard-copy of it? or a t-shirt? huh? sounds like you're taking advantage of not-so-smart NIN fans.

I can't afford a potential lawsuit. The licensing is a required cost if I don't obtain some sort of written permission. To get licensing, I have to ask for money, and then people ask, "why should I give you money?" They want something in return, so I offer a physical item. Sometimes people want stuff like that and sometimes they (you) don't. We've asserted that you don't. Again, fine with me. There's an option for that too. But why not try to serve both groups of people if I'm able? This isn't a "should I offer both digital downloads and CDs" debate or anything.

jbuonacc wrote:

not overly impressed with the sample though, honestly. some very good parts, but it sounds a bit off altogether. i don't see the point in all this really. then again, if it were Bit Shifter doing it, i'd be praising him for it. smile (i'd honestly love for him to do a whole Misfits chip album. sure wouldn't need a pressed CD or a t-shirt though.) sorry to say, but this had better be damn good if you want to pull it off.

Again, if you don't want one, don't buy it, that's just fine. The two lowest levels of contribution, which I am not asking you to pledge by the way, are digital downloads. No physical items. Solved.

I think Josh is a great guy. I own Information Chase and I bought a physical copy to support him. I understand that you do not feel the same way about me, but I really feel your comment basically says "I support him, but I don't support you," and you justify it with this:

jbuonacc wrote:

ehh... i feel bad for saying all this becuse you obviously have good intentions. something about it just seems 'wrong' though.

Can you see why that might be the least bit upsetting? If you can come up with more than that, I have open ears! Otherwise I don't feel like this is going anywhere useful. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're being polite (for the most part?) about the matter...

jbuonacc wrote:

btw - i'm thinking Saskrotch was being sarcastic. plenty sarcastic.

My sarcasm detector is off, I'm sorry to say. I'm in a pretty bad place, but I'm not here to plead. I think kickstarter is neat, it's good to not have to beg for an idea you think is cool, and most importantly, it worked for me.

Thank you, pixls!

Everyone else (except maybe Sycamore and Saskrotch), just forget I ever came here thanks.

jbuonacc wrote:

isn't this a bit ridiculous?

if you want to make a NIN chip album, then go for it. why ask people for handouts for doing something that most others would do in their spare time anyway and distribute for free?

Here, have some reasonings:
1. I'd like to mass-distribute it. Licensing costs money.
2. I'm putting together an entire cover album, not just a compilation where I do one track.
3. These are physical items I want to offer to an existing fanbase. It's fine if you're not one of them.
4. I was laid off at work. I would normally just front the money for everything myself but I can't afford it right now.

There's more, but I really think this should be enough. Obviously people are willing to pay for it.

I didn't come here to shove the kickstarter down your throat, I came posting asking for feedback on the track. Preferably from people that know the original. I mean, pardon me for providing a free download for the track I'm asking about (or you can stream it if you think you'd be wasting a few MB) and a kickstarter link to outline more information about what the track is for.

Apeshit wrote:

I don't think it's so much asking for hand-outs as it is making the option for a pre-order.

I'm kind of with you on the free distribution thing though. Only because it's cover songs. I think original music should be sold, covers should be a free release. But since this actual merchandise here, I don't see a serious problem.

I'm indifferent. Charging $25.00 for a 4 minute skype call on the other hand...

You know what, I'll be completely up-front about the high-dollar items and say right off the bat they're a bit absurd. Not that I don't plan follow through with it or anything.... but I could just simply "not offer" those things and people would still pledge more (I have existing higher-dollar pledges where people chose not to receive rewards at all), so I figured I might as well offer something.... and besides, people have obviously already asked to receive them, so they must have some worth.

Might as well do a Nice Thing(tm) and offer people something more, you know?

8bitweapon wrote:

The title of this thread "NINE INCH NAILS ALBUM IN PROGRESS" is only slightly misleading wink

Sorry. Better?

Hey Guys, I'm working on a Nine Inch Nails tribute album (link:kickstarter) and I wanted to drop in and see what people think about the track I dropped for free. Here it is (link:bandcamp).

If anyone over here submitted a track to the 8bc NIN tribute, hopefully no one thinks I'm stepping on them, my goals are a little bit different with this and I want to do it "Trent style" -- that is, all on my own -- and also I'm trying to do all of an album. There is no obligation to pledge, the kickstarter simply explains things for the most part better than I could here.

Feel free to provide constructive criticism or ask questions or whatever.

Sup all,

I'm copypasting this from 8bc, hope no one cares, no response over there. Should have thought to post here at the same time. blablabla.

I think some of you know me. If you don't, try one of these:
- http://inversephase.bandcamp.com/ (self-explanatory)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HI-ZMjn9d8 (fitting, but certainly no monument of programming ability)

I'm working on a third album. It's a cover/parody album like before, but this time I'm taking on a single album by a single artist. Forgive me for not saying what it is, by the way, I'm not trying to be secretive, just working on permissions and stuff right now, and I don't want others to run with my idea. It's "industrial", I guess. I expect the general attitude of videos will probably be kind of gritty.

I'm really trying to make the album shine by doing the songs on a bunch of different systems. Anyone that wants to do a video using any of those systems is useful right now. It can be a "cover" of the original music video, inspired by it, or maybe something completely different. I'm not trying to impose limitations or make the video work hard.

I already have an in-progress track using the following chips (hoping to add VRC6 to this list):

POKEY
2A03
SN76489
LR35902
SID/6581
YM2413
AY+SCC-I

I'll try to make sure this isn't a one-way road. Everyone will definitely be credited for their work, and I plan to upload the videos to my youtube channel. I have a healthy subscriber count to hopefully help video artists gain some exposure.

The album is more than halfway done at this point and I have some decent momentum now so please get in touch if you want to get involved!