241

(51 replies, posted in General Discussion)

12 Monkeys.

Does Brazil really count? It's dystopian for sure, but there is no indication of any apocalyptic event preceding the events of the movie. It's one of the best movies any way you have it, though.

Subway Sonicbeat wrote:

Also, 12 Monkeys can be considered post-apocalyptic? I know he "comes" from the future and etc, but I dunno.

Well, he comes from a future where most of mankind have been wiped out by a deadly biological weapon, and a lot of the movie deals with the nature of that future, so I'd say it counts.

242

(51 replies, posted in Bugs and Requests)

herr_prof wrote:

Learning to live with people you dont like is an important social skill.

On the other hand, the only reason it's an important social skill is that you can't easily ignore people you dislike or find uninteresting in most situations, which doesn't really apply to websites. Whether it should be a feature of the site or a simple client-side script is another matter of course.

Similarly, I have to deal with a lot of junk mail in real life. I either throw it out or it piles up. Some mail is important and require my attention, so it's definitely useful to get into the habit of sifting through your mail throwing the junk away on a daily basis, but that doesn't mean I have to apply the same strategy to my email inbox where this task can easily be automated.

If there are members of the forum you find write consistently useless and uninteresting messages, I don't see any reason not to ignore them if the medium allows doing so without imposing on the experience of other users. I think that "finding another bar" is a much less constructive way of dealing with it.

243

(12 replies, posted in Software & Plug-ins)

joule wrote:

Nice ideas.

I think the waveforms should be at least 64 byte and possibly 16-bit. Style with fidelity. What is the practice when it comes to bandlimiting? Would it need a HP+LP filter at certain frequencies to sound better, and at what frequencies in that case?

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys.

You can get rid of most aliasing by oversampling and downsampling with a steep lowpass filter, but for the best band limiting you would probably make use of band limited impulse trains. There's an LGPL library for doing just that here http://code.google.com/p/blip-buffer/

I can't run it on my Game Boy.

Make sure your workspace is comfortable. Allot some time every week to music making. Don't bail out on it! Work with friends if that helps. Listen to music. If you can't be motivated to make music, do something you are motivated to do.

Hey, you've got a lot to work on, but don't let that put you off! As a general tip, what people say that they think about your music isn't necessarily what they actually think. Not-too-close friends and family will want to put their critique nicely, but sadly, sometimes in a way that will obfuscate their true opinion. They will do this either deliberately or subconsciously, but most likely with the best of intentions. A friend might as well say that your song is "pretty nice" if they dislike it or if they are not sure how to constructively phrase their critique. When asking people for critique (and when you are honestly looking for actual critique), stress the fact that you want an honest opinion and call people out on their bullshit if you notice that they are weaselling out of it smile. I've found that asking people who have no problem being blunt is the best strategy.

For the song itself, it's very repetitive but quite melodically oriented, which I don't think is a good combination (it gets annoying). It seems like you could spend a lot more time on the melody.

trolling

You disagreeing with what is being said doesn't make it trolling.

attacking

If the subject of this attack you are speaking of is offended, I'm sure s/he'll press the report button.

nerdsome wrote:

So my thread where I was "fishing for prices" on an item gets locked but this guy can start a troll thread attacking 90% of the musical uploads on this site?  How is that fair?  That's why I'm starting to like noisechannel.org better even though there's much less activity there.

Hint: One is against the rules, and the other is a personal opinion.

nerdsome wrote:

To the original poster:  if you don't like it, don't listen.  If you turn on the radio and hate the music, you change the station.  I highly doubt you write a whiny letter to them.  So just don't listen to the uploads here.  Problem solved.

Similarly, if you disagree with the original poster, why don't you just stop reading? Oh right, we're expressing opinions which we are entitled to even though we could just stop caring!

n00bstar wrote:

Would peer review be acceptable? Or would that create a kind of nazi elite that dictates what's good and what's not? How do we solve the problem of bad crappy music? Do we just ignore it and move on to the next piece? Is it in fact a problem or am I just a grumpy old fuck?

I think voting and structured sharing would solve a some of these problems. I'm not sure how it would create a nazi elite. Letting random people upload songs, giving them the benefit of the doubt by not revealing any substantial information of who liked/disliked it and why will at least cause people like me not to bother with it. For example, ordering songs by the average rating within a list of users you trust would be pretty useful.

249

(60 replies, posted in Releases)

This is just great stuff! It's all music module, right?

Anyway, looking forward to the raunchy techno/acid smile

breakphase wrote:

On a modern pc the sound chip would not be constrained to the point of being clicky. You would just feed the wavetable to the drivers, and if it clicks that means you need to debug it. On modern computers I think there is a tendancy to ATEMPT to make the hardware transparent. To pretend that the computer is something else. Clicky is buggy. Yeah that specific type of sound comes from LSDJ specifically, but it wasn't intended to click I'm sure. Anyway yeah the software does effect the technique here. I wouldn't argue that it doesn't. All I'm saying is that hardware is a factor that effects software and software effects composition, which you are kind of saying too.

Yeah, I definitely agree with your last point, and I agree that there's a tendency to aim for transparency in a lot of music software, but that's a tendency of software development more than anything else, and being clicky in many cases is something you have to opt out of rather than something that you simply don't have to deal with when developing. I also agree that there are limitations of simple hardware that prevents this freedom of choice, so I have a hunch that we aren't really disagreeing about anything smile


breakphase wrote:

I wasn't very clear about that. What I meant is that something like wavetables (in the non-waveform sense) or the tracker interface itself are a result of limited hardware resources. I agree there are always constraints.

Well, yeah, any music is shaped by the constraints of its platform. In the "clicky" case, for example, I'd say that the perceived limitation is really one of modern computer music software, not of the Game Boy or LSDJ, and it's more a case of limited software resources than limited hardware resources.

breakphase wrote:

Anyway I guess chipmusic is a just a particular sound. You know it when you hear it.

I'm tired.

Agreed!

BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:

oh, i have nothing against any of it. only pointing out the irony :]

i mean, maybe i just missed the whole point of the post. are we supposed to be 'discussing the discussion' or something, and it just slipped back into the old circlejerk? i guess im just surprised everybody is so keen to do this routine again. but anyways dont mind me, ill leave y'all to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by circle jerk, but I wouldn't use the word to describe an open discussion in which the participants respectfully argue based on a wide variety of opinions and perspectives.

BR1GHT PR1MATE wrote:

> Makes post urging chipscene to move on from hardware vs. software

> Initiates largest hardwave vs. software thread in over a year

-_______-

As long as there are people who will either agree or disagree with the points made in the original post, and are willing to discuss them, I'm not sure what the problem is. You haven't made a single post relevant to the discussion yet.

walter b. gentle wrote:

technically not chip

For anything to technically be chip, I think "chip" (in the context of music) needs a clear technical definition. ZX spectrum beeper music (which I think is generally accepted as chipmusic), for example, isn't chipmusic by the definition you presented in your last post.

What about DSP music? I mean music that is 100% generated by a sound chip. No-to-minimal CPU interaction. The only difference between a modern audio DSP chip and any YMxxxx chip of the 80s or whatever really is that it's a lot more capable.

What about the Amiga? The word was really coined to describe a certain type of music produced on the Amiga, so I think it's relevant to point out that the Paula chip is quite unlike any sound chip before it and also a lot unlike modern sound cards, and that the definition back then had nothing to do with the particular software or hardware used to produce the music.

walter b. gentle wrote:

if the op's question is should we move on, like not worry about the definition anymore, then no. thats just caving in to people that want their music to be accepted as chip when it is actually chip influenced

Why is this "caving in" something to worry about? Are you afraid that the music won't stand on its own? Consider the person A and B example egr posted.

But you wouldn't have thought to create clicky wavetables if you hadn't started with the hardware. It's totally undesirable when you first hear it. But eventually you learn to manipulate it to make something totally different than what you'd have made with clean waveforms.

What makes you think so? Stepping noises and clicks is something you have to take care to eliminate when you are developing software synthesizers. In this case it's not some inherent difference between the platforms that make the gameboy more clicky than a PC, but rather the level of abstraction from the natural properties of the sound hardware by the software. This further goes to prove the original point, because the real thing here is that you wouldn't have thought to create clicky wavetables because the software you are using basically won't allow you to do so.

A more interesting example of your line of thought would be non-aliasing waveforms. No to minimal aliasing is something you basically get for free with most simple PSGs of the 80s, but on a modern sound card that operates with a sample throughput of a few tens of thousands of samples per second, it's something you have to take care to eliminate by clever algorithms, and only then by losing overtone content.

This just reinforces the original idea that the hardware and software aren't really separable in any meaningful sense because neither is a transparent hose to your musical ideas.

Yeah, we could just start emulating all of it. Maybe there aren't anymore limits to push with the hardware.

Maybe there are, but the grasp of general users is limited to what the software provides them with. I don't disagree that you can "push the hardware" in some sense, but in reality most people are only pushing limits within the confines of the software paradigm.

Then again, emulation doesn't really sound the same. It's hard to get a "natural" sound out of an emulator. The old hardware wasn't perfect -- it was noisy and error prone. It might sound silly but I do perfer the sound of a dmg, as opposed to any emulation I've heard. Goattracker is a pretty good emulation for c64 though.

While I mostly agree, I can't think of any particular hardware besides the C64 (the SID envelopes are a bit buggy) that is prone to errors in any positive or musically relevant sense. I'm sure someone here can point to a few good examples, because I believe they exist.

Also, yes it's nice to experiment with new software. But then, after you have removed the constraints which shaped the software, you really have to think about what "chipmusic" means. When does it stop being chipmusic? I don't know if we even agree on what that term means.

You can't simply remove the constraints which shape the software, whatever those are. The hardware is at most one of many constraining factors, but definitely in no case the entirety of it. Wherever you'll find a defining point of chipmusic, I don't think it will be some hardware aspect of the production of it.

chunter wrote:

What shall we discuss instead? I thought the point was to share techniques.

I think the point is that hardware isn't more relevant to the technique than software.

255

(37 replies, posted in Audio Production)

I think Disasterpeace used to produce his songs in Reason. TBH, I haven't kept up very closely with his music lately, but the songs of his I've downloaded are still some of my favorites and perfectly balanced the classic elements of chipmusic with the flexibility a DAW offers. Not so much trying to trick Reason into sounding like a classic video game system as they were just freely picking stylistic hints from the genre and putting them in novel context.

TDK wrote:

This community to me feels rather closed. Fine if you're already known here, but it doesn't seem to want to engage newcomers who largely get ignored.

I'd like to think that the scene is largely meritocratic. It might not even make sense as a single scene, because different groups and corners of it have largely different sets of meritables. Being ignored might mostly be an issue of trying to reach out to the wrong community of people. Simply trying to attract a "chipmusic" audience might just not be the optimal point of leverage if you're trying to poke at the group of people who would actually enjoy listening to you.

BTW, regarding the C64 reliability issue mentioned in this thread, I currently have 3. One of which I recovered from a skip in 1996 and put it straight in to a box never to be switched on until last year. They're all working perfectly.

Yeah, it's not really much of a problem. People should keep in mind that these things have worked for 20-some to 30 years, and that's probably a lot longer than you will ever be able to say about the current generation of laptop computers.