17

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

The idea of workshops is entertaining to someone such as myself who has more of an audible, hands-on learning approach partially thanks to a massive battle with ADHD that keeps me from focusing on reading manuals unless I'm absolutely invested in it (also inb4 that argument...  it's not a crutch, it's just an obstacle you just keep having to tackle, and I've done pretty damn well so far.)  However, youtube is a great place for tutorials because it's already a saved recording and can be re-wound and viewed as often as necessary.  All in all, the idea of a workshop is cool, but we'd have to see how the crowd would be likely to react to one being streamed live.

As for the argue that nobody's going to watch someone sitting there pressing buttons...  I feel a lot of people go for the music first and then the performance aspect second.  While both important, one has a larger priority than the other.   I think streaming can still provide audible, visual and social entertainment and interaction without having to worry about buying ear plugs, age restrictions, or travel costs for both the artists and audience.

That being said, I would never dream of ever replacing live shows.  While knowing the concept of chiptune existed, the Boston 8-Bit Chip Concert at Pax East 2009(10?) was what honestly got me to jump on board, start making music and get involved.  I owe way too much to the  idea of live, physical concerts to ever even consider getting rid of them or dare thinking, "Oh, irl chip shows are on their way out."  I know some people that want to replace live shows with web shows (whom shall remain nameless unless they personally come forward.)  I refuse to see things that way.

Call it naive and unrealistic, but I would much rather a symbiotic relationship with as many people in the community over a competitive one.  Hell, it actually bothers me to the point I nearly wrote an apology letter to whomever runs 8static because we have to be the same weekend as them for two months in a row.  I only want to add to everything being awesome, not take away or compete.

Having multiple people in one stream does indeed help the chemistry and flow of a show, but let's not forget the classic Let's Plays from Deceased Crab, now.  wink  Once again, while we can encourage all kinds of acts and ideas, we really are at the mercy of whomever is streaming.  Perhaps after MAGFest we should sit down and come up with a collective guideline on how to not do a lackluster show, be it a physical venue or a web show?

Yes, this is a new and dare I even say experimental concept to our scene, but with anything new and experimental, I hope you all can give our show a shot and that you guys can give us the same kind of amazing feedback on ideas and problems that you've been giving to us so far.  To those still wondering, yes, there is a chat that the artists and audience share with each other, although sometimes it's hard for the artists to check it out mid-performance.

What's funny is that the moment I heard someone was talking about streaming and mentioned Clipstream here, my first reaction was wondering how terrible we were going to be picked apart and pissed on for being a terrible idea.  Thank you all for being incredibly rational and logical on this topic, your support, your criticisms and your suggestions.  I know I'll be checking back here as this keeps going and bringing up every post to the rest of the group that helps organize every Clipstream (whom seem to have been checking back often, as it is.)

Edited for punctuation.

18

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Chunter, when I'm not doing 80 things I'll check out the article, but my quick skim of it might have some valuable ideas in there...  Not sure on the emoji concept, but I guess I'd have to see it before getting the grasp of it.

Jotie, while you would imagine that to work, our first show as Clipstream was on a Sunday had a lot of people wanting to shift schedules because of work/school/oranges/whatever.  It became clear that everyone involved didn't want to worry about staying up too late on a Sunday, and the same would likely be for any time that isn't a weekend.  It's also partially why we've kept the videos on our stream--  so people who missed out or had stuff to do can see who they missed.

One thing that's a plus about ustream is that you can check out our shows via mobile devices, so you could be on the go and catch the show inbetween things you're doing (thus earlier when I was talking about catching the people with uncommon windows of time for viewing.)

Also, thanks for the compliment, SadPanda!  It's a relief to hear, considering most of the time we're thinking about how to fix things and how to make the show even better.

19

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

4mat wrote:

The workshop bit sounds like a bad idea, if they're just talking about hardware or tools only other chip musicians are going to be interested.  It'd be better to treat it like any other music show and just talk about the music, there's plenty of youtube videos about how to X, Y and Z for the other stuff.

Also true and a fair point.  I'm just willing to try different things out and see what people enjoy.

SketchMan3 wrote:

And just so this post isn't completely pointless, I just wanted to say that I always type stuff like "Wooo!" in the chat box at times in which it'd be appropriate to say such at a live show. It's more fun to me that way. It probably gets annoying for the other people though.

I've wondered how people have felt about that, really.  I'm also guilty as charged, but at the same time, there's no real definition for how to react to the stream.  I normally follow it up with a compliment or thanking the artist for their set, but it's hard to really blame someone for their excitement.  Regardless, I do understand why that feels a bit out of place.

Also, the whole synchronization idea is cool--  SSD Engage (I think that'd what they're calling themselves?) actually consists of three artists doing something similar to that, if I recall correctly (spry feel free to correct me if I totally got that wrong just now.)  As long as they're all in one place, it works out either live or streamed.  It's a very cool result!

20

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

SketchMan3 wrote:

It's always pretty fun when the home artist chats with us in the chatbox in between pressing start and select (I haven't yet seen any stream shows not based around Gameboys or NES sad ).

CCDM and Decktonic were on our last show, and they used an Amiga and DS, respectively.  We're always looking for more than just NES/Gameboy, but it's harder to find anyone in those areas willing.

herr_prof wrote:

That might be cool, have a vh1storytellers kind thing where people describe the process of making a song and share tricks.

roboctopus wrote:

I think a real-time Q&A chat with artists could be cool.  Since some of us are just mixing/pressing Game Boy buttons, we could encourage audience members to ask questions during the show and answer them in real time.  Questions about programming or patches or mixing or gear or "what key is that in?" or whatever.  *shrug*

I'd be entirely cool with that idea.  It'd be part show part workshop/Q&A...  Anyone up for trying that out?

21

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Jellica wrote:

I would maybe listen to a show if it wasnt on in the middle of the night.

Could you define the middle of the night?  We've organized our shows to work best for everyone's time zones (because we wouldn't want say, Whitely, to go on at 4 AM just to work for our friends at -5 GMT.)  Our shows have started around 5 PM GMT for the last couple  of times.

bryface wrote:

- there's a hosting/editorial component that definitely could be expanded upon, instead of just having a loose string of artist after artist with little cohesion otherwise.

I absolutely agree with you here.  The only difficulty happens to be that the stream has a momentary pause between feeds, and there doesn't seem to be a lot we can do with that.  Ustream offers ideas of showing videos or pictures inbetween sets that we're looking to expand upon, but it's effectiveness is questionable.  There is a program that would allow you to simultaneously host multiple feeds through your own, but it's quite expensive for what we're doing here.  I was lucky enough to have Xsplit show my video and the video of Hoodie for an intermission at Clip II.  Even then my audio got borked.

The Laohu wrote:

My biggest hang-up is with the energy. I love performing live because of the audience right there in front of you. You feed off of them and they feed off of you. I don't think I'd get that in a webstream. And as someone who sings, you need to have high energy.

There's no question of any of that.  It's a very different situation than a stage, and that was actually a hang-up of a few artists.  Not to drop names, but Rainbowdragoneyes (as "Taste the Rainbow") and Trey Frey had some of the most entertaining sets so far.  Instead of just playing and singing into a webcam (which would've been awkward for him,) Taste the Rainbow was him playing drums over his RDE tracks.  Trey Frey threw a living room dance party with his wife, a handful of their friends and their cat(s), had colored lights and everything.  Nonfinite ended his set by dumping a metric shit-ton of various gameboys onto his equipment like a honey badger that stopped giving a fuck.  CCDM was just him with his TV, an Amiga and an incredibly balls-to-the-wall performance of him going nuts to his Amiga gabber set.  I still have people asking me about where he found that "WHO HAS THE FOOTBALL?" sound clip.  I then tell them to ask him, since I will never reveal the secrets of the Wu-Tang clan.  (Edit:  Yikes, forgot to summarize--  my main point was if you have no way of making your performance not awkward for a stream, you should give it a shot.  If there isn't, then maybe we can find a way eventually.)

Also of course, to bring it to the table, any of you with ideas on having visually awesome or just entertaining sets for a web show are more than welcomed to come on sometime to set an example for the newer and up-and-coming artists.

Edited for clarification, grammar, etc.

22

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

spacetownsavior wrote:

A big part of why I don't really care for these streams are the fact that a LOT of the activity on the Facebook events/Youtube videos seem to be the people that are playing, about to play, or have played the event already. My girlfriend was actually commenting on the phenomenon and she said something really insightful -- there doesn't seem to be any room for people to simply be fans of the music, especially when it comes to these streaming shows. And that kind of thing matters when you're trying to present this stuff to people outside the "scene"; if all anyone sees are jpegs of the performers that have been MSpainted on, these livestreams start to become insular to the point where it's alienating to other people. Instead of discovering new music and feeling like I'm participating in a community, it ends up feeling like I stumbled in on a big inside joke hmm

You bring up some pretty interesting points and another valid outlook into possible media we could have went for.  I personally feel having someone there visually to signify they're playing feels more personal than one without, but I never discounted the idea when I saw people trying it out.

The MSPaint thing we did was a continuation of an inside joke, yes, but at the time we also thought there was a chance it would catch on and be more than one person doing silly things.  I'll tell said person from now on to keep it to inside the group the show started from.  If you refer to more inside jokes, i.e. the whole Cliptune/Quietcore/Freezestep terminology, we have posted it in places before... but perhaps they just weren't clear enough.

Is there any other way you could further explain how there isn't any room for people to just be fans of the music?  I'm not expecting perfect solutions, but perhaps if you could mention other things that also have irked you or your girlfriend or friends, we could figure out what would work better.  We want to be as welcoming as possible while still maintaining a personality for the show that wouldn't just feel generic... if that makes sense at all.

EDIT:  Also, that game idea actually sounds pretty neat!  I'm not sure how it would implement, but if it ends up ever happening I'd give it a shot.

23

(114 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Hey guys, glad to see this topic has a lot of feedback about the idea of streaming in general!

Quick disclosure:

1)  Wall of text ahead.  Sorry.  A lot got covered and I want to respond accordingly.
2)  I help organize and run clipstream, so that means I technically have a personal bias.  No shame in admitting that.  Allow me to explain how I see things...

We started off as a simple webshow party.  There were plenty of fuckups, streaming issues, hardware failures, one dude literally had about 3fps video going on.  We laughed at it and said we should do this monthly.  What it turned into was a type of web show that some people in the online scene had been asking (and dare I say) demanding for a while.

I think web shows are great because it grabs a wider-spread audience (as in anyone who can visit our ustream channel,) it makes it easier for people to have guests from further away (seriously, I did a double-take when I realized we "booked" artists from almost every continent,) and it reaches an audience that the live, physical shows can't easily obtain--  the too far away, the lazy, the cheap and the super-shy types.  Granted, that's definitely not our entire demographic and I don't have any problems with them liking our shows, but you don't see a lot of them heading out to concert venues to rock out with people more involved in the live show scenes and it's good to always have their support.

There is the issue of no financial revenue being generated.  By all means, if you're not willing to do a free show, that's your call and I'm never gonna judge anybody for that.  We're not here for the money, we're here to get new, veteran and up-and-coming artists to play their stuff and promote anything they've been working on.  We just want to further encourage people by having another venue open for them.  We're here to help encourage people to download and buy the music they've been rocking out to.

I honestly think web shows and live shows can easily co-exist since they serve similar purposes.  You can argue semantics but they are similar beasts with a different method of going about the same purpose.  There's some things I feel that can never be replaced from some of the live shows I've been to, but I also know that since starting up clipstream, I've been opened up to a massive amount of new, amazing content from people a lot of us didn't recognize before-hand.

As for the show content themselves, we are technically at the mercy of whomever is playing on our stream.  It does get boring just watching someone sit there in their bedroom, but I believe that's where a group chat is integral to the web show formula.  It's internet-social, if you will, since you're there to chat with people and share your dis/approval for a song or artist.  That being said, yeah, just someone's hands or their bedroom can get a bit stale, but sometimes that's also the easiest or most convenient place for people (i.e. the highschoolers that have played web shows) to play their music.  I'm guilty of it, sure, so are a lot of people.  I tried using XSplit to have multiple shots including a screen showing what's going on in my instance of Famitracker, a webcam of me being stupid, silly pictures of cats in space, and so forth. People have told me they found it was more entertaining...  the downside is that my desktop needs an upgrade and ran a bit choppy.  Also Xspit's audio quality is questionable without a monthly subscription.  You could say web shows are a bit experimental in the technical aspects.

Length has definitely been a question for all of us that are a part of clipstream.  On one hand, 10-12 hours is a damn lot of music.  On the other hand, it also guarantees we'll get people who only have a limited window of time available (which is surprisingly more people than I would've ever expected.)  Our show lengths have usually been caused by the demand of people wanting to play on our shows.

As spry said, we've noticed a handful of the issues you guys have brought up (regarding both our show and other shows) and we're working on making them and other issues happen as little as possible.  Any suggestions and feedback would be ABSOLUTELY welcomed.  We want to be something that everyone can appreciate.  Clip III had the most problems by far (which admittedly were partially just dumb mistakes,) but we'd rather have the least amount of issues possible.  Ask anyone that's played our first two shows;  we've always tried to make sure to work with whatever people have asked of us and made sure everyone was on the same page (to be fair, I'm pretty sure I personally annoyed the shit out of one someone with how thorough we were, and if they're reading, sorry about that.)

All in all, thank you to everyone here who's been a part or watched our little webshow that could.  It means a lot to us and we hope we can make the show even better than it's already been.

24

(13 replies, posted in Collaborations)

Damn, I wish I could, but I'm going to be stupid busy until the end of the month.  Sorry!

Music is as subjective as it is objective, just like other forms of art.  People either get or they don't.  Clearly we've seen a lot of great stuff come out of the people that do, so I'll let those that don't get it miss out on how awesome it is.

In short, meh, whatever.

26

(27 replies, posted in Releases)

I don't mean to further crush your parade, but the limitations of the hardware are a big deal to the chipmusic community.  Just using a VST in a Digital Audio Workstation is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way (as you've already seen.)

I'm going to assume you're enthusiastic about making the music and emerging into the scene, and that's awesome!  There's a great tutorial on getting started located in General Discussion (seriously, here's a link to it,) take the time to make the amazing music, and make a name for yourself.

As for the debate on covers, it's always a losing battle.  I've preferred to use them primarily to learn new effects and techniques.  It's why my first EP was barely any original content, but then the next album was nothing but original work.

Best of luck, cheers!

Edited for grammar.

YESSSSSSSSSS

28

(20 replies, posted in Past Events)

There can be no wrong with this combination.

Doomcloud - Robot Luv (Beard Banger Remixxx), Knife City - Slam Dunk Lifestyle or Ultrasyd - Atari Sucks

Edited for other suggestions

30

(43 replies, posted in Past Events)

Man, I woke up and was blown away by that.  Best randomly inspired idea, ever.

31

(43 replies, posted in Past Events)

I just started officially recovering from how awesome that show was.  Thanks to everybody for making that an awesome night, and OHMYGODPREPAREFORTHENEXTONE.

32

(43 replies, posted in Past Events)

All I can think of for other BRK puns right now is BRKing Bad.