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Topics by yogi
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cyberic wrote:yogi wrote:after a basic read thru of the source code
you got the source code?
Sorry, I was referring to the Source that is part of Littlescale's thesis, the link is a few posts back (15? posts). He may have changed the code used in the first run from this version, but I doubt it. It's very basic and the real work is done within the Teensey.
Sorry for the confusion,
Yogi
EDIT: so out of intrest I just compared the SMSM bin from the Thesis and the released SMSM ROM posted to Littlescale's blog. HxD reports them identical, I know we may be talking 'apples and oranges' but in the case of the GenMDM ROM I would bet that they are the same also.
TylerBarnes wrote:It should also be noted that you will have to have some nsf player code to get the nsfs to play on the console. I don't use Fami so I'm unaware if it is capable of exporting a complete .NES rom.
The easiest way by far is to compile all your tracks into a multi song nsf. then get a copy of vegaplay and compile that using your multi nsf. Which brings up another point, Fami can surely export a multi nsf right guys?? I use MML for everything so I'm not to knowledgeable about Famitracker.
FamiTracker exports to a selection of file types .nes, .prg, .bin, .asm as well as .nsf. And does multi-song nsf also
Yogi
Imaginary wrote:Hey man, welcome to tracking! I'm a proponent of Famitracker all the way. It's got a fun and easy to learn UI and it sounds awesome. The channel specific .wav export is pretty nice, and you can't beat it's NSF export function either.
yogi wrote:The console specific tracker programs can create audio files but with the help of emulator code that re-creates the console's hardware with-in PC software. The core of these trackers 'speak' the native code of the target console.
There are software attempts to convert between some consoles and MOD files or Midi files. But these face the limitation of the target system and are a bit like "fitting a square peg in a round hole".
This brings up a few questions I've been meaning to ask, If one has cart copies of Pulsar or Ntraq, what's required to get the song data from the carts and hopefully into NSF format on a PC? Is there some sort of NES card reader out there? After you get the song data, how do you go about compiling it into NSF?
For my setup I have INL flash carts and the Kazzo cart edge programmer. This allows me to move Save data between the NES and Nestopia running Pulsar. But there isn't really a way to get a NSF out of the deal, that I know of.
I imagine the PowerPak or EverDrive flash carts can do similar if that helps. Probably more flexible also; INL's focus is more on the Repo/homebrew cart community rather then dumping ROMs and the original Japanese Kazzo project software documentation does not translate well with Google. So it's difficult to write/change the dumping scripts for it. But I lucked out and figured out how to do the SNROM and SXROM mappers.
EDIT Also wanted to say that the Kazzo hardware will also dump/load save files from a rechiped cart; so if you take a SNROM cart and replace the PRG rom with a NTRQ EPROM, you can access the Save data in the battery backed WRAM as described above.
Yogi
RatShack wrote:yogi wrote:Yes as I understand it. The Teensey does all the work. The Sega ROM just loads registers.
EDIT: after a basic read thru of the source code, the main loop of the GenMDM run on the 68000. There is a 'Z80 driver' loaded into the Z80 ram but the 68000 seems to do all the writes to the YM and PSG.
Yogi
There's obviously demand for this thing and it's relatively simple... what's stopping anyone else from developing something similar? Lack of console development experience?
I wouldn't say that it's a lack of experience so much but more to the limits of the hardware and the user's goals. People coming from a game dev or demoscene POV want tools to aid compos. opting for a comfortable tracker cross-platform tool.
There are far more direct, live mode, type software for 'retro' computers because of the better UI. Very hard to effect fine control of PSG or YM registers with just a game pad or two.
So most approaches take the cross-platform style with the goal of producing a ROM for HW playback rather then live control on the console. But the lessons learned with LSDJ have been spreading to other platforms so we're seeing more native tracker projects.
While the GenMDM, Chip Mastro and midiNES have limits because of the constraints of midi and how to map all the variables, the appeal grows as the community shifts it's expectations. More and more musicians are focusing on live shows and want to get away from 'push the start button and look busy' on stage. Live shows are becoming more common now then 5-10 years ago when Demo parities were more common, so interest is fueling more innovations and demand.
Just my thoughts,
Yogi
Darkhan wrote:Ahaa, I get it. How will milky tracker work? One or the other tracking programs better than the other?
Milky Tracker is one of the modern MOD trackers, which relies on samples of waveforms, not unlike Cubase. The MOD tracker dates back to early days of PC music and the Demoscene. MOD files have an inherent compact size, including the note data and only the sample waveforms used. But again produces an audio stream on the PC as the main output. The 'Tracker' UI is a style of composing that some enjoy over the more common 'Piano Roll' UI and this style allows better control in some ways.
The console specific tracker programs can create audio files but with the help of emulator code that re-creates the console's hardware with-in PC software. The core of these trackers 'speak' the native code of the target console.
There are software attempts to convert between some consoles and MOD files or Midi files. But these face the limitation of the target system and are a bit like "fitting a square peg in a round hole".
Darkhan wrote:No I don't have bandcamp for my bit music yet, I play guitar in two other bands, so the chiptunes is on the side. Im thinking a half year ahead in time kinda of. Ive made some demos, n some starters/ideas for up coming songs, as well as a inspired bit song, but with more of a new age element. I was planing to sit down to learn me milkytracker, but didn't get a chance yet.
Oh OK. Would love to hear when you release some. I would say that 'chiptunes' in general encompass a diverse range of genres, everything from the traditional 'in game' type of music to ambient electro drone and jazz, ( but I've yet to hear any Country and Western chip). Everyone has a preference but almost all will respect the effort in dealing with the limitations of the instrument.
Welcome aboard,
Yogi
Darkhan wrote:In Cubase, using various program plug ins like Massive, chipsounds, pluss different voice samples, and guitar. Is that possible to even get over on cartridge? Or does it have to be made on gameboys and trackers etc.
Well in this case you will have a problem. To "play" a song on NES hardware you are accessing the Sound generator registers. There are several ways to compose, FamiTracker is a very popular one as well as Deflemask. The point being that these tools produce code that runs on the micro processor of the NES.
Your studio process is a very valid way to create chiptunes but the audio mix will not run on the restricted hardware of the console 
Do you have a bandcamp page, would like to hear.
Yogi
I would recommend you talk to INL
http://www.infiniteneslives.com/products.php
He produces Flash based carts in a number of mappers and has assisted with some resent NES album releases. Infinite NES Lives (Paul) mainly hangs out at nesdev.com forums. A good guy in my book
Yogi
ForaBrokenEarth wrote:Man, this guy is raking it in. What is it with the chip community and people ripping off others work?
yea, Supply and Demand. Its like the cartage collector market, some of the prices paid for a rare title are obscene, to me. But the value of anything is what someone will pay for it.
Yogi
RatShack wrote:Isn't GENMDM just MIDI -> commands via some serial protocol over a joystick port -> Register writes -> Sound output?
The source for SMSM is pretty bare bones, I'd imagine GENMDM is the same way.
Yes as I understand it. The Teensey does all the work. The Sega ROM just loads registers.
EDIT: after a basic read thru of the source code, the main loop of the GenMDM run on the 68000. There is a 'Z80 driver' loaded into the Z80 ram but the 68000 seems to do all the writes to the YM and PSG.
Yogi
Jazzmarazz wrote:yogi wrote:I don't want to jump to any conclusions but kind of scary.
Not to continue with a banned subject but Littlescales' design and source is part of his Thesis project and published at https://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au … 2440/70888
So perhaps someone has cloned it based on the published data?
Yogi
You are not aware of what you have just unleashed my friend.
Someone pointed me to this recently and seemed the best way to pass it along, I wouldn't suggest that anyone infringe on copyrights but how people use the information in their own home is not for me to decide...
Yogi
TylerBarnes wrote:In other news. Who is mmmprpl on ebay? is this you DSC? and could this be kindly explained to how you/they have such a large supply of them?
It's looking an awful lot like what wayfar(sykdeity) is doing.
I don't want to jump to any conclusions but kind of scary.
Not to continue with a banned subject but Littlescales' design and source is part of his Thesis project and published at https://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au … 2440/70888
So perhaps someone has cloned it based on the published data?
Yogi
So good to hear your input You have indeed been very busy and I understand the limits on your time.( hope I didn't sound like I was'expecting' you to support this) And Yes, I was very excited to read that the plan was to have compatibility with the GenMDM CC assignments, and of course your FM Drive VST. That in fact was the kicker for me Having inter-op with FM Drive is my main goal with this.
I agree that it's a shame how things worked out with the GenMDM. And as you say, Seb could have developed a nice market for it. As talented and creative as he is, could have built a good cottage business if he had wanted to.
I've only just glanced at the source so far, but would very much like to get this baby running. As per the Youtube demos it's a good start so with some effort I'm sure progress can be made.
If there isn't enough interest in a board run I'll probably build it up on proto board. I have a YM2612 on hand ATM, but the 3438 looks very nice also. It sounds better then the 2612? It's MOR/MOL interface looks easier with the push/pull outputs so it might be a better choice.
At any rate, any experience with this project you can offer is greatly appreciated.
Yogi
Well the YMs can be had from ebay, I think I paid $5 about a year ago. then there is the Teensey2 ++ @ $24 and 4 LM386 and assorted other ICs, Resistors and Caps. I would guess about $40 to $50 in parts.
Hey all. So I was over at Spritemind (first time on that forum) and ran into this open source/open hardware project
http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/vie … php?t=1470
Very excited reading through the thread and was looking into ordering a board run from OSH park. There is a 3 board min and the Sq Inches work out to $43 per board.
This is just the board: no parts, DIY assembly with a alpha prototype WIP project. I don't know any thing about the project other then what is posted on that thread so can't offer much help to anyone till I get my hands on one. But bear in mind that the prototypes have been built and work; and it looks like Aly James has been working/testing it and has posted a tease on his thread here. BUT I can't speak for him any help he can or can't offer.
IF there is interest, the boards would be at cost+shipping from US via USPS. Payment by PayPal due when boards arrive here from OSH Park (before I ship to you). Can't imagine it would be too much postage for a padded mailing envelope but that depends on your location.
I have to order in groups of 3 and I'd rather not consider more then 9 boards total at this point ( 8 boards up for grabs, MAX). I'll wait about a week to order so lets hear if your interested.
Yogi
TylerBarnes wrote:yogi wrote: MidiNES which is being sold on EBay by a seller that seems to have a limitless supply.
I've noticed this as well. sykdeity is the user. Looking through his positive reviews and the completed listings there are dozons of Midines listings.
Indeed. I suppose there isn't much of a difference between this and a business that goes through bankruptcy, someone ends up getting shafted and others get to start over.
Yogi
ForaBrokenEarth wrote:What I would think has happened is this:
-Seb recieved the preorders.
-Real life happened and he had to put them off.
-Putting it off repeatedly turns into anxiety avoiding procrastination.
-The money is used on something else.
-Thinking about the project becomes a serious source of anxiety.
-Stops thinking about the project.
-Stops Answering emails.
-Spiral continues.
It's disappointing because he was such a respected figure in chipmusic I don't believe its malicious, it's just totally shitty. Seb if you read this just reach out and people can come to some sort of arrangement. Even if it's only an apology.
As for how to let go (if that's what you want to do) allow me to be a bit hippyish for a minute.:
Shichiri was reciting the sutras when a robber entered his room, put a knife to his back, and demanded his money. "Over there in the box," said Shichiri, going on with his recitation.
As the robber was leaving, Shichiri said, "Leave me some for my taxes; they are coming around tomorrow to collect." So the robber put back some of the money and started to leave.
"Don't you thank someone who makes you a gift?" asked Shichiri. So the robber thanked him, and went off.
A few days later the robber was caught; and among other confessions, he said he had robbed Shichiri. But Shichiri refused to testify against him. "I made him a gift of some money," he said. "And he thanked me for it. That was all."
The robber served a prison term. When he was freed, he went directly to Shichiri. "Will you be my teacher?" he said.
Well said
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