4mat
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egr wrote:
4mat wrote:

I'd go Milkytracker, it's portable, fairly coherent to use and if people don't want to do pure chip they can just load a bunch of samples in.  lgpt is the least friendly tool to start anybody off with ever.

Ok, I'll bite.  smile  Is it because of the joypad interface?  Other than the fact that the "reflexes" you build using a joypad to track won't translate to really anything except LSDJ, piggy is the most clearly laid out and approachable tracker I've found.

well, how the heck is anyone going to relate to that?  It's just horrible to look at, it's horrible for me and I know what I'm doing with it.  Eugh.  At least with pc trackers related things are either on the same screen or can be split onto the same screen.  It's really difficult to associate one thing with another in this (and LSDJ's) interface, and it's the association between one part of a tracker and another that's really important for learning.   I know a lot of c64 trackers have the same problem too.

Actually, thinking about it at a chip music workshop what hardware are people going to best relate to?   I'd imagine it'd be gameboy, so perhaps that is the route to go.

Last edited by 4mat (May 4, 2013 9:29 pm)

herr_prof
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Is there any intuitive trackers really? Seems like most of them are designed by coders and all have their learning curves and quirks. Ive only tried milkytracker on portable devices and its always felt pretty unsuited for such interfaces.

Im a pretty big lgpt homer, but I also like lsdj which ive grown used to. Coming from using LSDJ for years its pretty intuitive and mega fast using a dpad interface but using on a keyboard for users used to keyboard trackers can probably be a bit bewildering and frustrating. On the other hand Milktracker ports for handhelds always feel crazy unusable for me, so it depends on the workshops focus. Chipmusic for handhelds, chipmusic on your modern computer? etc...

Renoise is "free" and better suited to work alongside modern DAWs, and can use vsts and whatnot. You can do the sample tracker thing, or load chip sounds or other such emulators and easily rewire it into an existing workflows if the person has a casual acquaintance with another music production app. Hell if you have the time you can even throw reaper on the cd-r and load a project that shows full integration.

Lets not get into platform wars and think about stuff a casual person would find useful as a introduction to chiptune esque production/

Last edited by herr_prof (May 4, 2013 9:41 pm)

SketchMan3
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NC in the US of America
4mat wrote:
egr wrote:

Ok, I'll bite.  smile  Is it because of the joypad interface?  Other than the fact that the "reflexes" you build using a joypad to track won't translate to really anything except LSDJ, piggy is the most clearly laid out and approachable tracker I've found.

well, how the heck is anyone going to relate to that?  It's just horrible to look at, it's horrible for me and I know what I'm doing with it.  Eugh.  At least with pc trackers related things are either on the same screen or can be split onto the same screen.  It's really difficult to associate one thing with another in this (and LSDJ's) interface, and it's the association between one part of a tracker and another that's really important for learning.   I know a lot of c64 trackers have the same problem too.

It's funny, because those are the exact obstacles that I face when using PC trackers vs Piggy and LSDJ. Too much clutter on the screen. Too much scatter. Too much association. At least with LSDJ/Piggy everything is nicely organized and compartmentalized. Anti-social interface wins for me. You go to this tab to set tempo, go to that tab to make your instruments, go to the other tab to enter notes. So nice and organized, and you don't have to worry about all that other stuff when you're tryiing to focus on one thing.

And entering notes and commands with the keyboard is annoying. I'd rather just hold A and press up/down left/right. I know there are shmancy keyboard shortcuts for transposing that could achieve the same result, but it's just too much hassle.

Also, PC tracker commands are so abstract. What connection is there between the number 3xy and Legato (I actually do know why it's like this, so no need to school me, lol)

For me, having started on LSDJ, the joystick interface is the best thing ever. HivelyTracker's scroll wheel implementation is nice, too.

I figured out a nice answer to the question: The best tracker for the workshop is the one you are most comfortable with and want everybody else to use.

herr_prof
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4mat wrote:

well, how the heck is anyone going to relate to that?

http://gorehole.org/lgptWiki/doku.php?i … n_navigate

egr
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Abandoned on Fire
SketchMan3 wrote:

...with LSDJ/Piggy everything is nicely organized and compartmentalized.

That's how I feel as well.  There vast amount of navigation in piggy is just zoom in/out.  Song screen is the global view, instrument with associated table is the most specific view.  This setup makes the association between pairs of numbers and segments of a piece of music totally obvious which for a total newcomer to tracking can be a very confusing concept.

xX 8 BIT CHAMPION Xx
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Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Is Renoise pronounced rə.nwaz or ri:.noiz?

Last edited by xX 8 BIT CHAMPION Xx (May 4, 2013 10:17 pm)

my.Explosion
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Finland
xX 8 BIT CHAMPION Xx wrote:

Is Renoise pronounced rə.nwaz or ri:.noiz?

Pretty sure its rə.nwaz... It doesn't have an audible "noise" word that's for sure... I've been burned before.

Aaaaactually... I'm not even sure it's supposed to have an audible 's' in there???

Last edited by my.Explosion (May 4, 2013 11:10 pm)

Alpine
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UK, Leicester
4mat wrote:

well, how the heck is anyone going to relate to that?  It's just horrible to look at, it's horrible for me and I know what I'm doing with it.  Eugh.  At least with pc trackers related things are either on the same screen or can be split onto the same screen.

This, I never really got to grips with piggy because of it's look, it isn't nice to stare it, and it's a bit of a pain to learn to use. For something with a good, user-friendly interface, something like milky, or famitracker is going to be your best bet. For a workshop, each have their own merits, milkytracker has it's very user-friendly design with buttons that clearly tell you what things do, and famitracker, although not as friendly, produces sounds that more people, that the general public would call associate with chip.

4mat wrote:

Actually, thinking about it at a chip music workshop what hardware are people going to best relate to?   I'd imagine it'd be gameboy, so perhaps that is the route to go.

Although it is a better tool to use, as it's recognizable, and you don't have to explain that "No even though it is on a computer, this is the kind of music that would play on an NES/Amiga/Commodore 64" but you do have the problem that without a decent explanation, it can be quite a pain to use. Seeing as this is going to be a workshop, although I don't know the age of the people, or the setup of the workshop, I can't say for certain, but it's going to be better if there's less talking, and more hands-on stuff there.

Saskrotch
Offline
Chicago IL
my.Explosion wrote:
xX 8 BIT CHAMPION Xx wrote:

Is Renoise pronounced rə.nwaz or ri:.noiz?

Pretty sure its rə.nwaz... It doesn't have an audible "noise" word that's for sure... I've been burned before.

Aaaaactually... I'm not even sure it's supposed to have an audible 's' in there???

30 seconds on google =

Considering Renoise is a successor of NoiseTrekker, there shouldn't be much doubt how to pronounce it...

my.Explosion
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Finland
Saskrotch wrote:

30 seconds on google =

Considering Renoise is a successor of NoiseTrekker, there shouldn't be much doubt how to pronounce it...

Well I'll be damned. big_smile

Guess that debate I had regarding it a few years ago was a waste of time. Oh well.

ui
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Venezuela

Thx guys!... specially Saskrotch (for metion the MAC thing). And guys, plz... this is not a discussion of what tracker is better or not. This is more to get a nice tool for ppl who have NO IDEA what's a tracker or how to compose "chipmusic" by their own with free tools. Shamely the classroom has just MAC computers, but they all use PC, so i will probably show few trackers, since the workshop is 2 hours per day and 11 days.

What ppl have recomended me so far for mac are:
- Schism Tracker
- Klystrack
- SunVox
- GB emulator + LSDJ / Carillon
- BITBIN - http://bit.s3m.us/
- LPGT
- GoatTracker

Thx for any suggest, if you guys considerate any other let me know. Also what you guys think is important to show those ppl.

Delek
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Buenos Aires, Argentina

DefleMask is available for Mac, Windows and Linux too.

Alley Beach
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clovis CA
egr wrote:

LGPT!

i read this as LGBT xD

ui
Offline
Venezuela
Delek wrote:

DefleMask is available for Mac, Windows and Linux too.

YESH!, added

- Schism Tracker
- Klystrack
- SunVox
- GB emulator + LSDJ / Carillon
- BITBIN - http://bit.s3m.us/
- LPGT
- GoatTracker
- Deflemask

PaK-Zer0
Offline
Sevilla, Spain

This:

egr wrote:

LGPT!

Or this:

kitsch wrote:

deflemask

This is good too

Saskrotch wrote:

Schism Tracker

PaK-Zer0
Offline
Sevilla, Spain
4mat wrote:

well, how the heck is anyone going to relate to that? It's just horrible to look at, it's horrible for me and I know what I'm doing with it.  Eugh.  At least with pc trackers related things are either on the same screen or can be split onto the same screen.  It's really difficult to associate one thing with another in this (and LSDJ's) interface, and it's the association between one part of a tracker and another that's really important for learning.   I know a lot of c64 trackers have the same problem too.

Sarcasm on:
You deserve nothing but pain and punishment for saying that. That's how trackers used to look! We like horribles interfaces don't you get it?
Sarcasm is never off