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WOW MAN!

I think it's not easy to compare PR8 with what is being proposed here. On the one hand, PR8 offers an in-the-box solution which requires a huge amount of coding for the editor, screen handling, controls etc. which would not necessarily be needed by something that is MIDI-fying the NES. On the other hand, there are a lot of areas that it takes us into which I have a lot less experience: protocol handling, MIDI buffering/message packet construction/decoding etc.

I think it's a cool idea as long as there are clear goals and a a design. Without that it's a non-starter for me as I can't really get drawn into a ad hoc development - I just don't have the time that I had when I was making all of my other software. Sad but true.

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How about you hire Neil.. Neil how much would you ballpark the cost to add this feature? Be liberal.

Then a scene effort can work on building a smart kickstarter around it. Id imagine youd want to have:
- stickers and other giveaways
- Exclusive music
- Carts
- Interfaces
- Super rare collectibles
- Submit a sample?
- ETC

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neilbaldwin wrote:

I think it's a cool idea as long as there are clear goals and a a design. Without that it's a non-starter for me as I can't really get drawn into a ad hoc development - I just don't have the time that I had when I was making all of my other software. Sad but true.

I see your point.  I guess I was thinking of the method for handling samples like you have in PR8.  The biggest complaint I read is the samples in MIDINES are 'not good', so one of the first things I think we should have is a way to change out samples like you have in PR8.

I think we could find a couple other people to help with the protocol handling and midi messaging.  That part could also be worked out working on the interface.  The biggest issue that I see is having a programmer who already knows their way around an NES and can troubleshoot fairly well without having to get up to speed on the nuances of NES programming and I can think of no better person than you. 

If you had to even guess at a time frame, are we talking years?  The next hard question is, is this something you would even be interested in?  I know you are up to your eyeballs with cool projects, especially after opening Marmot Audio.  So if we are talking about a pipe dream, please let us know.

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I think the samples in Midines are better than the stock samples in LSDJ, so maybe its a problem with dmc playback realities versus any problems with the source material themselves. Its not cd quality for sure.

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rochester, ny

what about batsly's family midi?

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SLC, UT
nickmaynard wrote:

what about batsly's family midi?

I've been thinking this the entire time! Usability wise it seems to be close to what the chipmaestro is. I think they're both atmega based as well right? Someone posted a few months back saying they were going to be releasing an updated version soon, but Batsly Adams almost instantly posted asking him not to release anything and that he was planning on releasing something himself very soon. I haven't seen anything since then though he is pretty active on Vine/twitter.

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Matthew Joseph Payne

fami has been vaporware for a long time now. I actually built the hardware side and Batsly promised he'd send me the software when it was ready to go and never did. sad

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So...
How much do neil value is time making a midines lookalike with better samples and user firendly interface?Who can help him in doing so?
How much do they value their time?
Can someone or many people live from making this thingy?
That would tell us a little bit about how much money we must gather to make this project a possibility...
Isn't it possible to change a chip maestro and make it better?

And still, nobody answered my questions in my first 3 posts... mpc 500 to chip maestro? utility to keep a kp3 beside the mpc500.... an alternative to midines and chipmaestro... etc etc etc

But I love were this is going. If I can be of help, just ask smile

Ness

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Michigan

Quick post for the curious: I blogged about a few cartridges that I have "reverse engineered." They are all Genesis carts, but I have done others as well;
http://jazz-disassemblies.blogspot.com/ … aving.html

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Matthew Joseph Payne

Ness, I think this whole discussion actually answers your third question pretty effectively. As for your first question, yes, the MPC500 SHOULD be able to sequence your Maestro, or anything hat accepts MIDI sequences, but as discussed, the Maestro's functionality is just generally questionable, and you'll probably have the same issues that everybody else is having trying to control it with other devices.

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Jelly Stone park, MD USA

Interesting topic! Just a little reluctant to jump in here, but Midines was one of my first chiptune loves ( and disappointment) years ago, that dream ended so very badly sad
When the Chip Maestro cart  was in the early stages, it looked exciting. So I dug into  Jarek's posts about Tsundere hoping to find a replacement for the Midines. http://www.soniktech.com/tsundere/index.php
Jarek's design interfaces an Arduino to the NES' cart port. The uC handles the midi  messages and converts the note values to the relevant reg values for 2A03.
The interface consists of a state machine that is driven by the state of address bits A0:A2. Starting at ADR 0000 the state machine generates 'op codes' that are read by the 2A03; they set up a simple loop  to read values from the Atmel chip via buffer registers (implemented in the CPLD) and store them to the PSG. A very simple loop 8 bytes long including the data reads!
The Chip Maestro board replaces the Arduino with an ATMega168 chip ( running Arduino firmware ) and the logic gates with a CPLD; Jarek has posted the Arduino code but the Vertilog/VHDL synth file for the CPLD isn't released yet..
All of the note handling is done by the uC, IMO the '168 is underpowered, but all of the transfers are at the speed of the 2A03's instruction cycle. There is alot that can be improved on the uC side, but on the 2A03 side there really isn't much that can be changed, it's not code, it's 'gates'. 
yogi smile

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Melbourne, Australia
nickmaynard wrote:

what about batsly's family midi?

I have been working on an Arduino shield for MIDI to NES / Famicom that will work with batsly's family midi ROM - the hardware is ready to go, life has just gotten in the way of finding the time to sit down and write the code:


...the shield has a MIDI IN socket and circuitry (1n914 Diode / 6n138 Optoisolator / 1x220Ω & 1x270Ω resistors) and a DB15 socket for connection to the Famicom expansion port (or for NES, add an expansion port to your NES like so, or make your own DB15 to NES controller cable, or connect through the DB15 plug on an ENIO) - the shield also has a 4021 shift register on board, so the actual code to communicate with the NES would be really simple, there is no need to try and make the Arduino struggle to match the exact timing of the NES controller port, all you have to do is set the eight bits on the shift register after every latch and just let the 4021 do its thing!

So, for compatibility with family midi, just take the standard Arduino MIDI Library, read in each byte of MIDI, and put the eight bits of that byte on to the eight Arduino pins connected to the shift register, then rinse and repeat on every latch!

This shield could just as easily act like a NES controller the way MCTRL does... there are so many possibilities! I've also found room for a Wii Nunchuk connector, so the shield could read in the Nunchuk buttons and then send them out as NES control pad button presses, or read the Nunchuk tilt data and emulate an Arkanoid paddle, or send MIDI continuous controller data, or whatever! With the extra interfacing you get through the NES expansion port as compared to the controller port, there are a lot more possibilities! Because of the potential for so many 'modes' I've also put 3 dip switches on board to allow for code that will read the state of the switches and change mode accordingly (and there is an RGB LED on board wired directly to the dip switches for quick and easy representation of the selected mode by color).

Anyway, the hardware side is done, and I can have these made for something like $8 each, just haven't made myself sit down and write the code yet... any volunteers? Any serious volunteers? smile

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Melbourne, Australia

PS. I've called it 'FamiiDI' (Famicom / Wii / MIDI)!

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Dallas, Texas

I have one major and a couple minor questions to you Jazz. Will you have to desolder or deconstruct the Midines in order to properly rip the rom and make this clone happen?

I want to preface this next statement with the request that no one get there hopes up just yet based on my next statements. but I have two Midines carts and would possibly, I repeat, possibly contribute one if I could get my cart back in the same working condition that it was originally.

My supplementary questions are:
How long would be your best guess on the time it would take? I understand you won't definitively know till you have your hands on it.
And also if I lend my cart could I get a free clone? :3

› Show Spoiler

You guys try to keep in mind that I want to help, but I'm really attached to my midines carts and have invested some serious money in them especially considering the first time I tried to buy one was from the jerk face wayfar himself. So I'm naturally going to be very iffy about giving one away for a while, even if it's for science. So for now I just want the details on how healthy the donor cart will be after all the surgery is over.

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Sweeeeeeden

I can try to answer these questions to some degree.

ROM image: Easy, using a NES copier or desoldering the chip and putting it in a ROM reader.

CPLD and possible microcontroller: Between difficult and impossible to do non-destructively, if the read protect bits are set.

Then there's the question of whether a full board scan is desired. That means taking off all of the components, while otherwise you might get away with only removing the ROM chip, as the other chips likely have a programming header available that can be used. Again, assuming the read protect bits aren't set.

Tyler, could you open it up and take a photo and/or note which chips are being used?

Last edited by nitro2k01 (Oct 29, 2013 7:31 am)

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Dallas, Texas
nitro2k01 wrote:

Tyler, could you open it up and take a photo and/or note which chips are being used?

Definitely. I'll take tons of photos and make a list.