We're in a period where a lot of the artistic roles are in flux. It's better not to worry about semantics in a time like this. Just do what you do, and don't condemn other folks for doing what they do.
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Matthew Joseph Payne
tacticalbread wrote:
kineticturtle wrote:sound designer
fuck yeah.
High fives, bro!
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Sweden
godinpants wrote:
When i graduated from uni i told everyone i was finally an artist, and forbode them from practicing art until they were properly qualified. They said it was a stupid idea.
But you can't call yourself a doctor or lawyer until you've done the necessary study, why should music and art be so lenient on who can be what?
Yeah, I agree that it was a pretty stupid idea, to be honest. Quite a few great artists never went to any kind of art school, and frankly, thousands of people around the world without access even to the most basic formal education would probably create art more genuine, beautiful and technically skillful than you or anyone you graduated with. Study can take many shapes besides university or college courses.
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Sweden
Saskrotch wrote:
to me musicians are people that play instruments
people who write music for other people or things to perform (computers and such) are composers
I don't see why a composer would be any less of a musician than a performer. Both are involved in creating music, and without either of them there would be no music.
ovenrake wrote:
was about to say this
I don't want to see any confusion between performers, composers, producers, dj's, and musicians.
What exactly is a musician if not any of these other things you mention?
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Matthew Joseph Payne
boomlinde wrote:
Saskrotch wrote:to me musicians are people that play instruments
people who write music for other people or things to perform (computers and such) are composersI don't see why a composer would be any less of a musician than a performer. Both are involved in creating music, and without either of them there would be no music.
In the academic world, there are nearly no composers of music who don't also play an instrument and/or sing. In all university music programs, a piano requirement must be met, and a major performance instrument must be declared in order to receive a degree.
I don't think that very many electronic "composers" don't and have never played a musical instrument other than "drum machine" or "sequencer". Even then, the line is fuzzy. A drum machine perhaps seems like slightly more of an instrument than a computer sequencer, but what really is the difference? And where does NTRQ fall in line?
Wikipedia claims that a musician is anybody who writes, performs or otherwise creates music. Dictionary.com claims that a musician is anybody who "makes music a profession", or is skilled at music regardless of profession. I'm sure there are as many variants as there are places that attempt to define it.
In the end, it's all somewhat futile. What is so holy about the term "musician" that we feel like we need to protect it from those we deem unworthy? If I need to feel better than another musician, I can say I'm a composer, arranger, multi-instrumentalist, drum machine and chiptunes programmer and amateur recording engineer. I can say I'm classically trained, but some people would consider that a detriment so I might skip that bit. Another person can indicate their specific prowess - say, LSDJ programmer or self-taught blues guitarist, and we can both be musicians and neither of us is cheapened.
godinpants wrote:
When i graduated from uni i told everyone i was finally an artist, and forbode them from practicing art until they were properly qualified. They said it was a stupid idea.
But you can't call yourself a doctor or lawyer until you've done the necessary study, why should music and art be so lenient on who can be what?
Of course it's a stupid idea, but you raise an awesome point.
Theoretically one could argue that doctors and lawyers have a concrete and potentially dangerous impact on people's lives, whereas an artist does not. Architects, therefore, are a gray area in between - people care about their credentials quite a bit, because although what they are doing is art, your ability to live/work in the space and your safety while doing so hinge on their abilities.
So how does this apply to musicians and other artists? Do we have no responsibilities, no impact on society or people's lives?
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Godzilladelph
a musician is a loner who goes to the same open mic night every night at the local pub and serenades the ladies with his sweet acoustic guitar / stories of his miserable failure of a life, and then proceeds to get shit faced go home and make sweet love to his hand
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hardcore, Australia
kineticturtle wrote:
Theoretically one could argue that doctors and lawyers have a concrete and potentially dangerous impact on people's lives, whereas an artist does not. Architects, therefore, are a gray area in between - people care about their credentials quite a bit, because although what they are doing is art, your ability to live/work in the space and your safety while doing so hinge on their abilities.
So how does this apply to musicians and other artists? Do we have no responsibilities, no impact on society or people's lives?
Finally someone understands what i was getting at.
We used to have this discussion in class, over when someone became an artist, and when what they did became art.
The architects are a good example, because there is a fair degree of art within it.
As far as taking a responsibility for what they do, while an architect may take some hit if their building is endangering life, but there are so many steps between the architect and the final building that it has really left their hands.
I work in the construction industry and i can tell you that a lot of the work architects want is just poorly thought out. It comes down to guys like me and my coworkers having to argue that no one wants to deal with a 4m high door made of 19mm glass.
To me an architect plays the same role as a composer.
The composer writes the original score, providing as much or as little detail as they want, hoping to give enough instruction that the musician (construction worker) can interpret it in the way they intended.
Just like a builder is the last step in making a drawing into a building, a musician is the last step between turning an idea/emotion/instruction into music.
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Melbourne, Australia
ITT : zan-zan hopes for a group consensus that allows him to more easily identify and pigeon hole members into the "they write shit music" category by sight alone.
tl;dr : It didn't work.
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AANABAY01
ITT celsius interrupts a good debate to be a jerkoff, a pattern he's followed since 8bc 
our stupid rivalry.Offline
A musician MUST know theory to truly be a "musician." The terms "musician" and the ability to make good music are NOT mutually exclusive though. A mother who knows basic cold remedies or the coach that can pop a dislocated shoulder back in is not a doctor, a person who composes but has no idea what key they are in is not a musician. One method is not superior to another, it's strictly an academic term. It has nothing to do with their roles in society, it's simply used to refer to one's knowledge/qualifications in the subject at hand.
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Chicago IL
you can get into semantics but there are composers who write without playing an instrument, and musicians who only play what other people have already written.
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Brooklyn NY US
Beware wrote:
a person who composes but has no idea what key they are in is not a musician.
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BOSTON
gizmo wrote:
We're in a period where a lot of the artistic roles are in flux. It's better not to worry about semantics in a time like this. Just do what you do, and don't condemn other folks for doing what they do.
^^this, 100000x this. goddamnit
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Tokyo, Japan
Forgive me for being dull and shit, but this sounds an awful lot like the "what is art" debate. And I think that is purely contextual. I mean my coffee table in my house is just a coffee table, if I call is a master piece move it into an art gallery then its art. Same goes for music, Most people agree MJ's Thriller is music, I guess the sound of MJ playing armpit bag pipe while chasing a reluctant chimp around his fairy palace is an unfortunate happenstance until it is put on an album and called music by people.
I guess a musician is anyone who called them self a musician and / or is agreed to be one but general consensus.