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Rochester, NY

well, i'm at least glad to see it's working out for you. hopefully the end product will be to everyone's liking.

not sure i understand the need for licensing, i don't think anyone would go after you if you put this out for free. i'm guessing Nullsleep didn't have any problems with his Depeche Mode MegaMix. how many cover albums have been done in the community already, with no backlash? and how many do you actually think will sell? aren't the licensing costs based on how many copies you sell? i'm wondering how much this will actually cost you in the long run.

i bring up Bit Shifter because i already *know* that he does quality work (next level, really), and based on his 'Horror Business' cover i'd love to hear a full album of that stuff.

EDIT: listening to your 80s covers now. pretty nice for the most part, i dig the take on New Year's Day (hate the 'punny' titles though).

this just seems like a bit of a gamble, and based on the example i'm not so sure how it'll turn out. i'm a big NIN fan going back to when Broken came out (hell, i went to Woodstock in '94 just to see them), so i'm interested in hearing what you come up with. good luck either way.



i do think it's funny though, especially when you say the money will be going towards older systems for the production of the album. maybe i should do up my own Kickstarter saying that i plan to cover 'Led Zeppelin IV' using only a Moog Modular and a TR-808. my goal would be to raise $12,000 to buy the Moog and 808, license the tracks, and then print up a few CDs and t-shirts. smile do you see how this looks like a bit of a cash grab?

Last edited by jbuonacc (Jun 7, 2011 12:39 am)

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East Kilbride, Scotland

Just to clarify my position on this, I fully support this idea and the use of Kickstarter for projects like this. If people want to pay for your music and idea, that's great. If it encourages you to make even more, superb.

I'm not quite sure what jbuonacc's problem is, musicians have and will continue to use the money from advance sales from sales in general to purchase musical equipment. I'd say the project has already been successful in that people believe in it enough to pay upfront for it, and I don't have a problem with anyone benefitting from their own hard work and perseverance.

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Rochester, NY

i don't know, man. something about it just seems odd. it's like if he were doing this for an album of his own original music, then i'd totally support him in it.

it just seems like a cash-in on the NIN name/fanbase.

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InversePhase wrote:

You know what, I'll be completely up-front about the high-dollar items and say right off the bat they're a bit absurd. Not that I don't plan follow through with it or anything.... but I could just simply "not offer" those things and people would still pledge more (I have existing higher-dollar pledges where people chose not to receive rewards at all), so I figured I might as well offer something.... and besides, people have obviously already asked to receive them, so they must have some worth.

Might as well do a Nice Thing(tm) and offer people something more, you know?

No worries, I was just teasing. wink

Good luck with the project.

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Virgins-ia
jbuonacc wrote:

well, i'm at least glad to see it's working out for you. hopefully the end product will be to everyone's liking.

Me too, on both counts.

jbuonacc wrote:

not sure i understand the need for licensing, i don't think anyone would go after you if you put this out for free. i'm guessing Nullsleep didn't have any problems with his Depeche Mode MegaMix. how many cover albums have been done in the community already, with no backlash? and how many do you actually think will sell? aren't the licensing costs based on how many copies you sell? i'm wondering how much this will actually cost you in the long run.

Just because they (Nullsleep or any other artist) didn't get licensing doesn't mean it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. How many of the tribute albums have actually been well-promoted (and I mean "heavily", not just a few blogs or people spreading them around), and have you noticed that most chip tributes are shorter than a real album or not specifically singling out an album? Nullsleep's DM tribute is 14 minutes, and while I applaud that, I'm going for over an hour of NIN here; all of one specific album.

Problem is, if you promote to get yourself out there -- which you want to do as a musician by the way -- there's a chance of getting popular. If your repertoire includes covers and there's any chance of you making money from that, a label/artist/whatever could feel threatened, or want a cut. Others feel honored by tributes and covers. You don't think anyone will go after you, but you also don't know they won't. Even if your intentions are good, they might think you portrayed them in a poor way or get upset by a shitty cover job. The best ways to avoid trouble are to (1) get in touch with the artist and/or label and state your intent, and (2) pay for compulsory licensing (a la royalties). Sometimes if you do #1, you can get it in writing that you don't need to do #2, but you can also do #2 if you can't get in touch with the necessary individuals.

I figured based on the popularity of my previous work that this'd be at least mildly successful. That is, originally I thought I could move more than a hundred units. Now, with 128 backers (nice round number) in three weeks, I know that at least this many people were able to find out about it and want one, so, theory confirmed. If I'm gonna play this stuff at shows and sell it on CD, I want to be clear to do so, and I don't want any element of uncertainty. I've been making every effort I can to contact everyone involved. That way there's no surprises for me or them.

jbuonacc wrote:

i bring up Bit Shifter because i already *know* that he does quality work (next level, really), and based on his 'Horror Business' cover i'd love to hear a full album of that stuff.

EDIT: listening to your 80s covers now. pretty nice for the most part, i dig the take on New Year's Day (hate the 'punny' titles though).

That's just fine, but (as you may have just discovered) my body of work is merely a few clicks away and you can judge for yourself whether it's good or not. I appreciate the compliments on NYD.

Sorry about the puns. I do that as a favor to the original musician so that my track is not accidentally mistaken for the real track if, for example, my name is removed from the filename or something. Also, it demonstrates that I am not trying to take credit for the original track or title. As a nice side bonus, when you inevitably torrent it later (arr, matey), at least an RIAA bot won't nail you.

jbuonacc wrote:

this just seems like a bit of a gamble, and based on the example i'm not so sure how it'll turn out. i'm a big NIN fan going back to when Broken came out (hell, i went to Woodstock in '94 just to see them), so i'm interested in hearing what you come up with. good luck either way.

You know what, I am 100% okay with that. It is totally okay to be uncertain. I've just never known someone to be so vocally and outspokenly uncertain to the point of naysaying. =]

It's going on bandcamp when it's done. You'll be able to listen to it in its entirety without giving me a dime.

jbuonacc wrote:

i do think it's funny though, especially when you say the money will be going towards older systems for the production of the album. maybe i should do up my own Kickstarter saying that i plan to cover 'Led Zeppelin IV' using only a Moog Modular and a TR-808. my goal would be to raise $12,000 to buy the Moog and 808, license the tracks, and then print up a few CDs and t-shirts. smile do you see how this looks like a bit of a cash grab?

Hey, if you want to cover all of IV, I say follow your dreams and go for it, but since you're being sarcastic to prove your point, I'll go ahead and address it. You're exaggerating my existing figures, and it's not favoring either point in the right direction. I don't expect favoritism, just realism. So, let's get to it:

First, $12k is over four times what I'm asking for. I'm don't need money to get actual machines, and nowhere do I actually state that. I already have an A8 to do my Atari tracks on, and a C64 to play my C64 tracks on, etc. Being able to connect stuff to my PC for part of the project would be nice. Or, having an XF551 that doesn't look like someone tried to put a slice of bologna in it would also be good. Barring that, how about a laptop battery because the one I have now is failing? The average Joe doesn't need to know my itemized shopping list. I chose not to inundate everyone with it.

Second, over a hundred is not "a few". Three is. I'll even let you exaggerate that to a "few dozen", which I am still exceeding with the kickstarter. I go to events probably somewhere on average of once a month. While I don't sell enough to pay the bills, I do sell a few, and I'd sure like to be able to pay bills with that some day.

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Milwaukee, WI
InversePhase wrote:

just realism

InversePhase wrote:

The average Joe doesn't need to know my itemized shopping list.

Am I missing something here?

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Virgins-ia
RG wrote:
InversePhase wrote:

just realism

InversePhase wrote:

The average Joe doesn't need to know my itemized shopping list.

Am I missing something here?

Yes. You're missing the part where jbuonacc (or anyone else for that matter) asked me outright to specify where every dollar of the money is going, because no one has actually done that yet. I've already covered the major points on the kickstarter itself.

You can save yourself the trouble of asking by checking out this thread over on ETS (which has a NIN fan forum). Read a little bit more bashing (which I understand might be on your agenda) or skip ahead to this post where I make my first appearance and explain some of the costs a little more in-depth (look for the big quote box). Note that I completely leave out hardware over there because I already hit the amount. If you can be arsed, feel free to google up some of the aforementioned items and add them to the running total.

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Europa surfing on the monolith

"A two dollar bill, now worth 8, something went terribly wrong there, it spun out of control, now its worth 8, still says 2, I missed a 2, I can break a 2, alright."


Mitch hedberg

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Europa surfing on the monolith

Just a joke in good fun, good luck on the project.

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Brighton | Portsmouth | UK

Good on you to be honest. As you're a NIN fan I'm guessing this is a labour of love and means something to you, in which case if you can get paid for it, go ahead. And like Trent needs any more dollah anyway.

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▐▐▌▌▐▌▌█▐ ▐▐▌▌▐▌▌█▐ ▐▐▌▌▐▌▌█▐

i enjoyed the track... eps the bridge

just throwing it out there my wife + i have been working on
a low-bit NIN cover album for a while now too.

Last edited by xero (Jun 7, 2011 1:08 pm)

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jbuonacc wrote:

not sure i understand the need for licensing, i don't think anyone would go after you if you put this out for free. i'm guessing Nullsleep didn't have any problems with his Depeche Mode MegaMix. how many cover albums have been done in the community already, with no backlash?

Da Chip is an example of a free chipmusic tribute album that got hit with a cease and desist. While NIN would probably be less likely to do such a thing, I find it a little strange that you're arguing against a legitimate release in favour of one that is technically illegal.

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Tacoma WA

I would just like to add that IAYD is no trent reznor

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Philly, PA, USA
sergio wrote:
jbuonacc wrote:

not sure i understand the need for licensing, i don't think anyone would go after you if you put this out for free. i'm guessing Nullsleep didn't have any problems with his Depeche Mode MegaMix. how many cover albums have been done in the community already, with no backlash?

Da Chip is an example of a free chipmusic tribute album that got hit with a cease and desist. While NIN would probably be less likely to do such a thing, I find it a little strange that you're arguing against a legitimate release in favour of one that is technically illegal.

If you release a tribute album for free there's nothing technically illegal about it, as far as I understand. If you're making money off of it that's where it gets bumpy, but if it's free I'm fairly certain that's protected.

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Unsubscribe

Not true. You cant release covers of songs for free or otherwise without permission.

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Philly, PA, USA

Oh ok, well there we go, I'm speaking out of my realm of knowledge i guess.