Oh wow. Just started listening to this and it's really cool so far.
66 Aug 30, 2012 5:11 am
Re: MOON8 remastered for NES / NSF / cartridge (12 replies, posted in Releases)
Thanks very much, all.
67 Aug 29, 2012 12:50 am
Re: MOON8 remastered for NES / NSF / cartridge (12 replies, posted in Releases)
Added NSFe version, since NSFPlay will be supporting NSFe very soon, and it helps keep players from cutting off the long tracks. (Also has track names.)
69 Jul 31, 2012 5:41 am
Re: How to get hi rres NES screenshots? (28 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
When resizing, resize it to some integer multiple, e.g. 200%, 500%, 1300%. Otherwise some of the pixels will be wider than others and it will look uneven. If you want a final size that is not an integer multiple, I recommend resizing it to a size larger than what you want, then turn on high quality resizing (e.g. lanczos) and downsize from there.
70 Jul 26, 2012 5:20 pm
Re: Why does the NES have a Tri wave rather than saw wave (48 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
The hardware sweep was especially suited for sound effects. The envelopes and length counters were evidently designed with both music and sound effects in mind, though in the end since you could get a lot more versatility (for both music and sound) by ignoring them and building software macros, most games did so.
boomlinde, something that just occurred to me that's kind of interesting design-wise different between SID and 2A03: 2A03's oscillators are all clock dividers, i.e. you have some counter that puts out a pulse every N clocks, which then drives the waveform generator. The SID being an accumulator adds N to the accumulator on every clock, and the high bits are (almost) directly used as the waveform output. The 2A03 units all have another output stage. This is visible to the user by whether the frequency registers increase or decrease with pitch; some Famicom expansions accumulate: FDS, N163, VRC7, others divide: MMC5, VRC6, 5B. The ones that accumulate all happen to use wavetables, incidentally.
Quietust has a few visual 2A03 overlays on his page, this one diagrams all the chip regions he's determined the function of: http://www.qmtpro.com/~nes/chipimages/r egions.png
71 Jul 25, 2012 10:28 pm
Re: Why does the NES have a Tri wave rather than saw wave (48 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
No, not really. I don't really have any desire to argue what words mean. I only wanted to clarify what I was trying to say, which was that the decision not to use sine was probably not a cost saving measure, and you seem to at least partly agree with this, don't you? I don't think I will get anything out of trying to design/describe an actual sine generator circuit, so please excuse me if I leave off details of that at this point. I'm sure you could do it as well as I can. I was a little confused by the words you were using, but I think we know what each-other means by now.
There are a number of things on the chip that could have been cut with some foresight, I think. The envelope and length counters in particular don't offer much, and the majority of games ignore them. The length counter in particular has a rather large and useless lookup table attached to it. The triangle has its own redundant "linear counter" in addition to the length counter; not sure what that was about.
Another weird thing is that the periodic noise mode was apparently not present in the original run of Famicom units. Not sure what the story is on that one; maybe there was a problem that disabled it by accident that they fixed in subsequent runs?
72 Jul 25, 2012 8:53 pm
Re: Why does the NES have a Tri wave rather than saw wave (48 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
No, the complexity of a LUT for a 4-bit sine would not be very significant, and I think it's weird to call it ROM because its small size and specific purpose allows a great deal of simplifications vs a generic "ROM", but I think we're off topic. The point was that I think a sine was a viable option, electronics wise, but wouldn't have been as useful as a triangle anyway.
73 Jul 25, 2012 4:31 pm
Re: Why does the NES have a Tri wave rather than saw wave (48 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
Lookup tables are fairly simple to implement as logic, I don't know what you mean by "sparing any ROM"; I wasn't talking about a lookup table like you would implement in software. At this scale, it would be similar in logic complexity to things like counters, and I mentioned them as a practical way to do a 4-bit 16-stage sine wave in comparison to the 4-bit 16-stage triangle. My point was that complexity was not the reason they didn't pick a sine wave; they didn't pick it because triangle is superior.
If you really want to know the particulars of the triangle implementation, you might learn how to read the Visual 2A03 project. I personally don't have the skill/knowledge to do it quickly, though, so I've kind of held off on attempting to gain knowledge that way.
The SID is a great chip, and that's a cool article (thanks for linking it). Its design is drastically different though; particularly how it uses one underlying binary counter to output the 3 different waveforms by changing how its bits are output. (Compare to the 2A03 where each channel has a single purpose.) A large sine wave LUT with resolution like the other 3 waveforms would be impractical for this for sure, but a 4-bit/16-step sine wave LUT would probably have been quite doable actually for the SID -- though it would have been pointless to implement such a thing.
74 Jul 21, 2012 3:28 am
Re: MOON8 remastered for NES / NSF / cartridge (12 replies, posted in Releases)
I programmed it. Well, the music playback is Famitracker, so I didn't write that part, but everything else except the PAL/NTSC detect code (which is by tepples) is mine.
75 Jul 20, 2012 11:39 pm
Topic: MOON8 remastered for NES / NSF / cartridge (12 replies, posted in Releases)
My cover of Dark Side of the Moon is finally available as an NSF and NES ROM. The original release of MOON8 was in 2010, but I never made a proper NES format release until now.
Info here: http://rainwarrior.ca/music/moon8.html
76 Jul 5, 2012 3:12 pm
Re: Why does the NES have a Tri wave rather than saw wave (48 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
I don't think they did a triangle because they couldn't do a sine wave. A 4-bit sine wave probably would have been about as easy to implement as the triangle with a loookup table. There's nothing particularly ideal about a sine wave for music; it has profound mathematical/geometric properties, but it's not a particularly great sound all by itself. The NES sound frequently suffers from hard to hear triangle when the user's bass response is poor; with a sine this problem would be even worse.
77 Jul 5, 2012 7:27 am
Re: Why does the NES have a Tri wave rather than saw wave (48 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
It's not necessarily any cheaper/easier to make a saw than a triangle the way they did it. The triangle wave generator is not a CPU running a program; it is a collection of logic that outputs to a DAC, so there is no "processing" or "computation" time in that sense. Oscillators on the 2A03 are not sharing a common processor resource (i.e. time); each one runs in parallel.
I'm not sure whether a saw wave generator would have taken less logic parts, but my intuition is that the difference in this case would have been negligible. I'm certain the VRC6 saw wave has a lot more logic components than the 2A03 triangle.
9H0ST I think has the best explanation. A saw has very strong harmonics which make it harder to blend with other sounds. The triangle is preferred for bassline for the same reason that a bass guitar is usually preferred to a baritone saxophone for this purpose. Similarly, consider a saw wave with no volume control like the triangle. This would probably be about the same level of complexity to implement, but imagine how hard it would be to balance with the other channels. Triangle is pretty hard to balance already, but at least because its audible bandwidth is mostly underneath/separate from the pulse channels it's manageable.
The triangle has no volume control, because it's built very similarly to the pulse channels. Each of these has a 4-bit output; in the case of pulses the DAC is either the square's volume setting or 0. In the case of the triangle, the shape of the triangle has 16 steps, already using its 4-bits of output. It'd be a lot of extra parts to be able to control its volume (you'd need an 8-bit output, and some logic to control the amplitude).
fluidvolt: They actually made a few bad design decisions on the 2A03. The DPCM frequency table is particularly poorly chosen, in my opinion. The length counter table is somewhat useless, as well. The DPCM also conflicts with the data bus used by controllers, so games that use DPCM have to read the controller state 3 times every frame to prevent bad button-press data. (Interesting thread at NESDev about DPCM frequencies here.)
78 Jun 17, 2012 3:54 am
Topic: NSFPlay / NSFPlug 2.1 (3 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
A few months ago I decided to pick up NSFPlay where its original developer left off 6 years ago. It's been my favourite NSF player for a long while, and I thought it could use a tune up. I released this a few months ago, but I figure some people around here might not have heard about it.
http://rainwarrior.ca/projects/nsfplay/
- Now runs on Vista / Windows 7
- PAL support
- Stereo mixer
- WAV file output (with command line support)
- Many corrections for sound accuracy
79 Jun 16, 2012 10:20 pm
Re: Inverse Phase - Pretty Eight Machine (8 replies, posted in Releases)
Good album.
80 May 21, 2012 7:47 am
Re: NES VRC6/VRC7 on real hardware? (52 replies, posted in Nintendo Consoles)
I know this thread is a bit old, but I just thought I'd mention I've begun making and archiving Famicom hardware expansion recordings here: