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ChipMusic.org / Forums / Posts by CountSymphoniC
This project is not dead.
Those interested in following development can visit http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/vie … 4242#24242
Keep in mind this is a Sega development forum, so try to keep things dev related.
And... sorry for the lack of updates in two years.
WTF? DefleMask's code will not help in a native tracker program.
I really don't have much interest in a native tracker btw, never used LSDJ too much, making music in the actual console is a loss of time for me (only a personal opinion). Music was done in computers back in the day, and after they exported to the actual HW.
We're not getting jealous now are we Delek? Haha I kid. I agree with you and the facts you mentioned of tracking history. Lsdj is very popular, being able to make console music on actual hardware is something that alot of people enjoy doing. It may not be the original, most efficient and official way to write Sega music, but nonetheless this is something popular and fun for everyone to do. No matter what, people will always have the choice between using trackers like Deflemask and trackers like LSDJ. It's whatever they feel most comfortable with/enjoy the most and I believe everyone deserves to have that choice.
I sincerely think you should look into porting Deflemask to mobile devices. This will certainly put the spotlight on your tracker and expand the audience of Deflemask users! Alot of people want to be able to write chiptunes on the go and as of right now the options of doing so is restricted. I'm sure many want a native tracker just so they can enjoy writing sega music on a Nomad on the go! Porting Deflemask would provide a way for people to do this without a Nomad, more people have cell phones and tablets than they do portable Sega Genesis'.
I understand the you would have problems selling an Android version, but you could sell the executable on your site no? I strongly encourage making this happen, there's always a workaround if you look for it.
On a side note, of course there will be PSG channels. Like I said, that screenshot is a mock up interface, Mike might even be doing something more with the project, I should probably talk to him and see what's up.
Yes it was Sunvox. The only one I could find.
EDIT: Who thinks that this is how we should do things on the Genesis?
Before we get too excited, this is just the beginning of a GUI. What it might look like. And yes, I realize that in it's current state, there would probably be tile clipping on the sides in it's current state.
I've contacted Mike Stamper about collaborating to make a native tracker. He seems pretty interested! This project might just happen after all! It looks like the focus might be on EXPANDING what he has done so far. Either way, progress.
I didn't read all of this thread. There's a VGM player being put together right now that may work. I should probably look into it.
GEMS seems a bit too limited, and SMPS I can only find disassembled source code, so it's a programmer's nightmare. The sound driver has to be the most difficult part of the project.
Boy do I feel guilty.
Sorry everyone for the lack of updates. People that offered to help for some reason stopped replying to my messages and my personal life made turns for the worst, top that with the fact that I came across an awesome tracker for mobile devices which totally killed all my motivation to try developing this (I thought it would be awesome to be able to make FM chiptunes on the go). Ultimately I became discouraged from taking this project on and stopped working on programming stuff in general. Long story short, life sucks. HOWEVER...
Recently I thought about this project and how many people wanted to see it happen. If this project is going to happen at all, it's going to have to be a side project. I just don't have enough free time to do anything anymore, kinda depressing! I actually do get SOME free time, but not enough to fully dedicate all my life to something. SO maybe if I do a little bit here and a little bit there. I was also wanting to put together a GBA game... which all of this really makes me want to get back into coding. So maybe every now and then I can come up with some minor updates or proof of concepts or something. Rome wasn't built in a day. Everyone if there's a lesson to be learned here it's this... if you're going to take on a huge project, do it in byte sized chunks. Ok so maybe there's another lesson to learn... don't ever lean on just one reason for wanting to do something major, lest that reason collapses under all your weight.
I say this goes for Jerk of the Year! award. Lol. The good news? After I move across the USA, I might have a lot more time for this. Disclaimer : Take this project with a grain of salt from now on. I don't want to break any more hearts.
Edit: Ok, Time to get off my lazy rear... or really since I'm on a computer stay on it instead. I'm working on a project skeleton. More progress than I made the last time around. Who knows WHAT this is going to turn into. Now, it's a common programmer's line "Don't reinvent the wheel", so I'm going to ask, if anyone has any ideas for a good sound driver/engine that is tracker friendly that can be used here... now's the time to speak up. Collaboration is welcome, it looks like I got my fire back. 
Well as far as help with graphics is concerned, I've spoken to several people that seem willing to help through email and PM's.
There seems to be a couple of people with console coding experience that are interested in taking part as well. I'm happy to see both the enthusiasm and the round of support from everyone. Things like that makes this project more exciting to take on.
I've purchased a domain name + hosting services and am preparing to start a website. Primarily, this website is for another music project of mine which has been in the works for several years now and is nearing completion ( a blend of Electronic, Classical, Jazz, and Metal/Rock with a hint of "chip" here and there). But I've decided to also use this website for the Tracker project. So, the first thing I want to do is get this website ready to go, as it will be the central hub for all news and updates relating to this tracker. This is for everyone's convenience and will assist me in more efficiently managing my time as far as communicating the progress of tracker development, instead of bouncing around forums and what have you. As soon as the website is presentable I will post a link to it here.
Secondly, there's confusion as to how I'm going to approach driving the YM chip. There are drivers already coded out there that could theoretically be implemented in the tracker to MAJORLY streamline development (meaning I wouldn't have to deal with coding the sound engine from scratch). Unfortunately, the one I was hoping to use apparently wasn't designed for real time music sequencing. It's open source, and either I'd have to make some modifications to it myself, or I could contact the devs and have them make the necessary changes. Either way, this one thing right here is the pivotal point for the entire development of the tracker and will dictate how long it takes to get it fully functional. The difference between months and years. If it turns out that this sound engine can be used, then the interface along with other critical coding tasks for the tracker will IMMEDIATELY be started. If worst case scenario? Then I'm going to have to start my own basic sound engine. But I have a good and suspicious feeling that the Echo sound engine is malleable for tracker purposes 
We shall see.
I want you all to know that I have a full time job, a Fiancee' to take care of, a trip to Phoenix, Arizona coming up, a huge music project in the works, various other handheld device DIY projects as well as this Genesis tracker project. I live a very busy life, multitasking all of this isn't exactly the simplest way to do things and initial progress on the tracker itself isn't going to be as nice and quick as we all want it to be. Yeah, it's probably going to take a while until we see a downloadable demo. However, I'm certain that once we get to this point updates will be a lot more frequent and progress will go a lot more smoothly.
So website, then sound engine.
Forum bug caused double post... please delete this for forum cleanliness.
I couldn't provide anything in the way of coding or design, but could potentially donate/provide hosting if it was somehow needed! I'd love an LSDJ-style program for the Mega Drive!
Donations are a very kind and almost welcome gesture, however this early in the project I must refuse all donations. When we start seeing public releases, then I'll consider setting up a donation system. However I'm interested in your offer to provide hosting, could you PM me more information? Although I could technically afford to take care of hosting on my own, I want to get the ball rolling before I start paying for my own hosting.
This could be technically possible.
You mean sort of like... a native tracker is on the console... but you want to input notes etc etc via MIDI data from a sequencer etc?
Yes, that is what I want to do, I'm also wondering what other features are possible with interaction with the native tracker.
If you're interested, follow http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/9156/ … sequencer/ for more info.
@kitsch Wait, the same kitsch, as in Kitsch Bent? I bought an EMS Smart Card from that store just a week or two ago. Great Service, and great for LSDJ. I'll be buying a backlight soon. Happy customer
@ Delek Seeing as how you have an excellent tracker put out, I'll be taking your valuable feedback to help shape the style of development for this tracker. The same line of thinking tends to happen when I'm composing, I'll plan out a song idea, and I'll start writing, and the plan inevitably changes, so I have to "think like liquid" so to speak, adapting to the process. What I'm working on doing is gathering information for the overall program structure... that way I have a framework in mind before I just randomly start coding, but your idea is a sound one, and I'll probably stick to borrowing it.
I'm a Windows user by default, but I already set up Linux xubuntu on a VM, and am currently setting up the Genesis development environment on that.I'm gathering as much Sega Genesis dev information and documentation as I can get my hands on, so I can familiarize myself with the architecture and niches of the console. One guarantee... this project will take quite some time, until I can get past the intitial curve anyways. I'll PM you for assistance shortly.
To everyone else, thanks for the name and feature ideas. I'm like the YMGT and YMDJ idea. I think I'll probably take a bunch of the best ideas and have everyone vote on which name should be used. My ocd shall not be trusted to pick a name... haha.
I'm interested in knowing if it's possible to have software on the Genesis intercept the MIDI data... such as a native tracker. Or does this only work directly with the sound chip?
A couple of things.
First, I'm thinking there should be a basic and an advanced control scheme. To accommodate the 3 button and 6 button genesis controllers respectively. Not everyone is going to use this tracker with a Nomad, and not everyone is going to use it with a 3 or 6 button either/or. I believe that the needs of nearly everyone should be taken into consideration with the development of this tracker.
Secondly, seeing as how there really isn't a "select" button, and "mode" seems kinda iffy to use in it's place... in the case of using an "LSDJ" inspired interface, the "C" button should be assigned.
Either way, I've learned from the mistakes of many app and game developers... it's unreasonably inconvenient to not allow user customization of the program's control scheme. So this is a feature I would like to implement.
It looks like it's time to start getting a list down of tracker features, there's many great ideas coming forth. Most everyone here seems to agree on the "LSDJ" style interface, so I'm going to get into contact with Johan about this. It may also be possible to create multiple UI's, with which the user may choose one of their preference.
I would be all over this. I shall ramble on the topic for a while!
- Johan let Marc nostromo use the LSDJ interface for Piggy Tracker, may well do it for another project.
- I assume this would be fairly Nomad focussed? The nomad button lay out is a bit strange, Dpad on the left, mode, start and 6 other buttons on the right. Might be a bit of a challenge for an LSDJ type interface?
- The nomad battery life is horrrrrrid.
- FM instruments have a huge number of parameters, im guessing about 50 or so, would probably need a multipage instrument screen. Maybe one for envelopes, one for multipliers, feedback, algos etc
- Live mode would be fanTASTic!
- Be careful with the documentation for the YM2612 a lot of the documentation labels the algorithms incorrectly!
- A flashcart with a SD card might make loading custom samples easier?
- Keff WINS as pretty GUIs
- LSDJ style tables with YM2612 would be simply wonderful
Basically I am totally down for this!
Lazerbeat, could you point me to YM2612 docs that are accurate? Btw, I'm a heavy user of tables in LSDJ. There's no way I would do an "LSDJ" styled tracker without the tables. Same with live mode.
I'm happy to see that it seems like a lot of people are definitely interested in this. I'm seeing some good ideas being chimed in as well.
I'm curious as to whether or not it's feasible to port the code responsible for the handling of the FM synths in one of the pc Genesis trackers to the Genesis itself. It would speed up the development of this tracker immensely, because in my opinion, coding the synths would be the most challenging and time consuming part, then again it may be a necessary evil.
Also, is anybody interested in helping out with the graphical UI? I could do it myself sure, but I know there's people out there more talented than I am with graphics. I was PM'd one offer for help so far.
Keep the ideas coming guys, I'm liking what I'm seeing.
@ BR1GHT PR1MATE - Well if the LSDJ standard is used... then live mode is a must. I had also thought to myself that if there was ever a native tracker for the Genesis, I would definitely be getting a Nomad.
@ walter b. gentl - I'll appreciate all the support I can get. I don't want this to be another M4G Tracker experience... although I really hope to see that project completed. Also I totally forgot about the 6 button gamepads, that's a very good point. I'm also interested in the possibility of making the tracker compatible with little scale's GenMDM MIDI interface, this would make both the tracker and the interface, a very useful and fun combination, and likely garner more attention from the chiptune community. But yes, this concept is very real, and if enough support and ideas come in, we can move into the planning phase.
That mouse idea is interesting as well, I never knew such a thing existed for the Genesis.
I don't like to make music directly on a console, I did some test for the Genesis with various interfaces, but, for me, the workflow never can be compared to a PC with his mouse and a keyboard. Even the original soundtracks for the Genesis (and almost all consoles) actually were coded using a computer and, later, downloaded to the machine. However, if you have some demand about this and you finish this, I will be very interested in adding support for output files/something from DefleMask to your native tracker.
Regards.
Delek, wow I totally forgot about DefleMask. But as a matter of fact I agree with you 100%. It's highly unlikely that composing on a console can be made to be nearly as efficient as on PC. Personally, I can write music a lot faster on PC based DAW's than on any tracker (console or PC based) as an example. However I find that there's a certain quality that's difficult to describe in words that comes with console based trackers, that just contrasts nicely with the usual composing on PC. You might say that it's for the novelty of it all. Either way, there's a natural progression to things... the older NES and Gameboy has their native trackers. The GBA has it's trackers on the way (hopefully), it's time a project has begun for the Sega Genesis because if I don't do it, someone else will.
Thank you for your feedback and support, I appreciate it. Speaking of which, I just tried DefleMask a few days ago, and I really liked the presentation and the interface, a job well done.
ChipMusic.org / Forums / Posts by CountSymphoniC
