Maybe, I'm going to another store nearby to look at an Allen & Heath, maybe they'll have a Soundcraft too? (even better if they have the Mackie to compare!)
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York, Yorkshire
Well, I went to the store on Friday to check out an Allen & Heath ZED10 (same as ZED12 but less channels and knobs instead of faders) and a Soundcraft EFX8 (same as EFX12, just less channels). Sadly, the shop weren't really ready for a demo and I was only able to briefly check out the Soundcraft which had been wired up incorrectly by the shop monkey.
Initial feeling is that the build quality of the Allen & Heath is first class, superb! Conversely the Soundcraft feels really cheap and I'm not sure would stand up to much use before pots and faders fail (like the one in the previous shop!).
So, the Soundcraft is out. The A&H ZED10 doesn't have enough channels and I really want faders, so I really need to have a feel of a ZED12 I think.
I need to get my mitts on a Mackie ProFX12 too, I think given that one of those can be had for a little over £200, that may be the best bet. If the FX are no good (as I suspet) I can add a secondhand TC unit for £100 which would have the added benefit of MIDI control/sync and still come up cheaper than the Allen & Heath.
In other news, I've been using a Soundlab 4/8 channel "Micro Mixer" which I found in a darkened corner of the studio, can't really remember how I procured it, but at least I know what a piece of shit sounds like now!
Last edited by BitPop (Jul 19, 2010 10:48 am)
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York, Yorkshire
Well, that decides that : I just won a TC M350 off ebay - MIDI Sync Delays FTW! So it's gonna be the Mackie ProFX12 
Last edited by BitPop (Jul 20, 2010 7:49 am)
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York, Yorkshire
Scratch that! After poring over the manual for the ProFX12, it seems there's only one FX send (even though Mackie claim there are two) and that one is shared with the on board DSP....WHAT?!?!?
Given the TC 350 has a split DSP engine, I could do with two aux sends. So the requirement has changed, I no longer need effects, but 2 auxes would be best.
Behringer X1204USB £134 - Basic FX version. Can't help but consider it at this price.
Yamaha MG124C £185 - Actually quite a nice spec. Simple Comp on each channel is a nice touch. Anyone know how this compares? Anyone heard one?
Soundcraft EPM 12 £225 - Same as the EFX, just no effects. A bit Big. May be OK if I can get used to the slack faders.
Yamaha MW12C £240 - Is this just same as above but with USB? I don't need USB....just wondered if anyone knew.
Mackie 1202 VLZ3 £273 - although this doesn't have faders. Flipside : nice size.
Allen & Heath Z14 £294 - As before, this seems to be the daddy, but it's alot more than the competition 
Last edited by BitPop (Jul 20, 2010 3:05 pm)
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IL, US
i have and love the 1202 vlz3..you can get used to knobs instead of faders pretty easily in most cases
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New York City
BitPop wrote:
Behringer X1204USB £134 - Basic FX version. Can't help but consider it at this price.
You will have the same problem, SEND 1 is the internal FX. I don't know if you can use two sends at the same time but I remember this bus was shared with the internal FX.
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York, Yorkshire
e.s.c. wrote:
i have and love the 1202 vlz3..you can get used to knobs instead of faders pretty easily in most cases
It looks like a really, really tidy mixer, and clearly even from the pics it's got top rate build quality. Still not sure about the knobs, but that does mean small footprint, so there are advantages.
akira^8GB wrote:
BitPop wrote:Behringer X1204USB £134 - Basic FX version. Can't help but consider it at this price.
You will have the same problem, SEND 1 is the internal FX. I don't know if you can use two sends at the same time but I remember this bus was shared with the internal FX.
I've not checked the manual, but looking at this piccie :
http://www.behringer.com/JP/images/ligh … op_XXL.png
There's two aux send jacks, and two stereo returns, so I think it will be OK. It's just the Behringer build quality/reliability which is a concern.
I'm giving serious consideration to the Yamaha M124C at the moment, so I'm digging around trying to find reviews etc. There's a few people mention them on Gearsluts and to paraphrase "it's a step up from Behringer". Although one person did say that in his opinion it was a little noisy as it uses unbalanced inputs. Most 8bit gear isn't balanced anyway, so no biggie! An even if it were, then just using the XLR sockets instead would solve that one I'm sure. The local shop has one in, so I'll pop over for a look at lunchtime I think. I even remembered to bring my DMG with me 
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York, Yorkshire
Wait....I get it. The ProFX has one send, and a monitor out. They're counting the monitor out as a send. conversely, it seems on other models they don't have a monitor out, then have an AUX2.
I will probably be using floor monitors or IEM in the future, so I actually need 3 sends, or 2 sends + monitor.
This is getting more expensive by the minute. I think I might just stick with my 4 channel Soundlab POS 
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New York City
BitPop wrote:
I've not checked the manual, but looking at this piccie :
http://www.behringer.com/JP/images/ligh … op_XXL.png
There's two aux send jacks, and two stereo returns, so I think it will be OK. It's just the Behringer build quality/reliability which is a concern.
But the FX overrides one of the buses and leaves you with just one send.
This is the same as the Xenyx 1204FX I used to have and it worked like that. I am not sure if you can use the two sends at once, I never tried, but the FX did override one of the sends when in use if not at all times (can't remember. Read that manual).
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IL, US
BitPop wrote:
Wait....I get it. The ProFX has one send, and a monitor out. They're counting the monitor out as a send. conversely, it seems on other models they don't have a monitor out, then have an AUX2.
I will probably be using floor monitors or IEM in the future, so I actually need 3 sends, or 2 sends + monitor.
This is getting more expensive by the minute. I think I might just stick with my 4 channel Soundlab POS
well, the mackie has the control room out which works well for monitors (either whole mix, or set it to only have your alt 3-4 outputs got to control room but also the main mix, should you only want some pieces of your gear in the monitor) if you do this though, you may wish to set the aux1 out to prefader rather than post fader, since i dont think you can send a channel to the alt 3-4 and the effects out simultaneously otherwise (i know this was the case on some behringers, havent bothered to check since i got the mackie, since i havent been using the alt outs)
edit: got caught up in that enough to forget to mention this: unless youre buying your own monitors, likely youll be getting them run by the sound guy at the venue as just a full mix, which works fine for most situations aynway..but in that case you wont need another send
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York, Yorkshire
Akira : OK. Although tempted by the price, I think I'm best avoiding the Behringer anyway. Still interesting to contemplate it though, seems quite competent
e.s.c : yeah, I don't think I'll monitor in that way. I need to give a different mix to the monitor, typically it has more vox as it goes to IEMs. But yes, typically the rest of the monitor mix will just be done by some dude, or else just a feed from main.
To help me as much as anything else, here's a rather shoddy diagram of what I'm trying to do
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York, Yorkshire
Well, it was pretty clear from my most recent post that the only mixers which were gonna do the job were the CFX12 and the ZED12. The only dilemma I had was wether to go for the cheaper ZED12, or get the CFX12 just to give some more FX options.
A quick scour of eBay this afternoon revealed CFX12 (MK1) for sale, with no bids! I just put in a single bid and snapped it up for £185, that's a billy bargain all week long! Can't wait to get the bad boy in my rig, just need to make some deskspace somewhere :-D I'll be sure to post up some pics when it's all in place.
But, I just want to say THANKS to everyone who's given input based on experience and helped with advice , very much appreciated, I would still be scratching my head about it now otherwise!
So...THANKS!
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York, Yorkshire
Spent all weekend making jack cables for the mixer (my A/D converter is phono). Finally got to have a play with it yesterday evening. My god it's awesome! This is going to change my life.... I got all emotional