8bitweapon
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Los Angeles
e.s.c. wrote:

doing something thats a creative pursuit ONLY for money would be an example of the wrong reasons...so if the ONLY reason an artist makes music is because they figure its easier than a day job, then fuck them...thats some bullshit...and what ive been saying in this thread is general, not in relation to i fight dragons really, so you can quit jumping back to them

1) You can have artistic integrity AND get paid, they are not mutually exclusive.

2) Your position that "working for money is wrong" is insulting to anyone who holds a paying job.

3) The topic is I Fight Dragons wink

Bonus: If you sit down and think about it, who in their right mind would make music for just the money. Like they hate music, dont listen to music, and here they are making it for a living? It's comedy if you think about it. That scenario., if it actually exists, is very rare I bet. ya know? Everyone who makes music for hire is likely to love music to some degree, or else they wouldnt be a musician, right?

Being hired for music isnt like being hired to flip burgers (no offense Ronald). Not just anyone can crank out a tune the masses will enjoy. So "they" would likely hire someone with a track record of appealing music. Otherwise "they" will lose their investment for sure. Someone who makes music that a large group of people enjoy could only be done by a musician. The musician makes music for pleasure to begin with, not usually because they have to. There are few examples of "forced into music at gunpoint", make sense?

Last edited by 8bitweapon (Feb 23, 2010 11:02 pm)

Bit Shifter
Offline
Brooklyn NY US

e.s.c. is saying -- and I mean it's right there in the quoted text -- "doing something thats a creative pursuit ONLY for money would be an example of the wrong reasons."

--> ONLY <--

There's nothing there contesting the idea that people are entitled to make music and earn money doing it. It just may not be very appealing to people who respond to music based on some sort of invested meaning or significance. If making money is a musician's ONLY motivation, then they're making music that's most likely devoid of meaning.

If you like music because of musicianship, virtuosity, technical ability, etc., then the presence or absence of emotional investment is a non-issue. If you like music because it has some emotional resonance with you, then it's not.

I can go to a wedding and see a fucking WICKED-ass wedding band that is the tightest, turn-on-a-dime ensemble, that is extremely versatile, skilled, operates brilliantly as a unit, and playing all the songs I know and love. I will probably dance like crazy at the wedding. Am I going to buy their CD out of an interest in hearing it later? Probably not. Do I dismiss what they do, or ignore their skill and ability, or begrudge them a living? Definitely not. Skill, ability, technical talent / proficiency are admirable, and so is the ability to make a living as a musician -- but those things just aren't the reason I listen to music.

Re: the question of "who in their right mind would make music just for the money" -- you're assuming that working just for the money must mean hating music. Haven't you ever worked at a job you didn't really like? Maybe a job you didn't hate, didn't love, but there was a steady paycheck involved, so you just sort of run with it. There are definitely musicians out there in that situation, with that job being music.

And that's fine -- but is it honest music? Is it saying something? If someone's making music but isn't really putting any passion in it -- is it still interesting music? Some might say yes, some might say no. Depends on the reasons a given person listens to music.

So maybe the whole statement needs to be attenuated, let's make it more specific: "if you're out to make music with meaning, doing it ONLY for money would be an example of the wrong reasons."

On topic: I have no real opinion about I Fight Dragons signing to Atlantic, they seem like earnest guys who love what they do and they seem sensible enough to make informed decisions.

tacticalbread
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))<>((
infradead wrote:

so by this logic people who make a living doing soundtracks, foley, and most other sound realted work are doing it for the wrong reasons? 
they're doing it for a living not for arts sake?

This is what I want to do, and I want to do it because I enjoy it, not because of the money. The only reason I'd do it for money, is becauseI wouldn't have time to do that, and have a job.

8bitweapon
Offline
Los Angeles
Bit Shifter wrote:

e.s.c. is saying -- and I mean it's right there in the quoted text -- "doing something thats a creative pursuit ONLY for money would be an example of the wrong reasons."

--> ONLY <--


Re: the question of "who in their right mind would make music just for the money" -- you're assuming that working just for the money must mean hating music. Haven't you ever worked at a job you didn't really like? Maybe a job you didn't hate, didn't love, but there was a steady paycheck involved, so you just sort of run with it. There are definitely musicians out there in that situation, with that job being music.

And that's fine -- but is it honest music? Is it saying something? If someone's making music but isn't really putting any passion in it -- is it still interesting music? Some might say yes, some might say no. Depends on the reasons a given person listens to music.

I see what you are saying here. I agree. I also add "Why does it matter what the reason was the artist did it?" You will never actually know why. So why bother discussing it.

If people enjoy the end result, I think that is what matters.

donotrunwithpixels
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Swansea, UK
8bitweapon wrote:

If people enjoy the end result, I think that is what matters.

While I agree that we'll never know why anyone does anything, I think the reason does matter. We all know of genres and acts that really are style over substance, and many are all the better for it. It's not all about the end product, at least in my opinion.

8bitweapon
Offline
Los Angeles
Bit Shifter wrote:

If making money is a musician's ONLY motivation, then they're making music that's most likely devoid of meaning.

You would never know the motivation. Humans add meaning to everything, especially to things that have no obvious meaning. That's what we do best. That's why some people see "Mary" in Toast and "Elvis" at bus stops.

You may or may not like the song, but if you didnt know a robot wrote it, you may try and figure out where the writer was coming from based on your experience of the piece.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Last edited by 8bitweapon (Feb 23, 2010 11:46 pm)

Bit Shifter
Offline
Brooklyn NY US

I guess I just feel like the end result is only part of the picture. That's just me. Different people have different affinities for music, and that's fine. To me personally, an artist's intentions (which, you're right, are rarely knowable for sure -- but you can often guess pretty well) are almost as important as the musical result. If I feel like I'm being pandered to by a song, a band, whatever, I'm basically going to lose interest instantly, and that's a reaction having very little to do with how catchy a song is, or how well it's performed / produced. So that's one example of what I mean by artistic intentions, context, and so on. On some level I feel like most people -- especially people passionate about music -- have to feel somewhat the same way, no?

8bitweapon
Offline
Los Angeles

In that specific scenario I agree Josh. smile

The key factor is the listeners interpretation of the piece. Some people hear Lady GAGA and think its the greatest music ever made, full of depth and vast meaning. Others dont lol

" artist's intentions (which, you're right, are rarely knowable for sure -- but you can often guess pretty well) "  How can you say you cant confirm anything, but assume your guess is right? Maybe im not following you?

Last edited by 8bitweapon (Feb 24, 2010 1:20 am)

10k
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nɐ˙ɯoɔ˙ʎǝupʎs

I would like to draw the attention of this thread back to this photo:

10k wrote:

tacticalbread
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))<>((
8bitweapon wrote:

The key factor is the listeners interpretation of the piece. Some people hear Lady GAGA and think its the greatest music ever made, full of depth and vast meaning. Others dont lol

e.s.c.
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IL, US

thanks bit shifter for picking up on the importance of the full caps "ONLY", you guys should know by now that i hate capital letters ( i dont even use them in my name, ever), so me using them for an entire word means massive fucking emphasis....i just hate fakers, and if you make music ONLY because its easier than a day job or you think youll get rich, famous and fucked by supermodels and you have no passion for making music, youre a fake in my book

8bitweapon
Offline
Los Angeles

Ok, I feel ya ESC haha smile

infradead
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Tacoma WA
e.s.c. wrote:

thanks bit shifter for picking up on the importance of the full caps "ONLY", you guys should know by now that i hate capital letters ( i dont even use them in my name, ever), so me using them for an entire word means massive fucking emphasis....i just hate fakers, and if you make music ONLY because its easier than a day job or you think youll get rich, famous and fucked by supermodels and you have no passion for making music, youre a fake in my book


wait.

so its not ok to be in it for the bitches.

crap.

e.s.c.
Offline
IL, US
infradead wrote:
e.s.c. wrote:

thanks bit shifter for picking up on the importance of the full caps "ONLY", you guys should know by now that i hate capital letters ( i dont even use them in my name, ever), so me using them for an entire word means massive fucking emphasis....i just hate fakers, and if you make music ONLY because its easier than a day job or you think youll get rich, famous and fucked by supermodels and you have no passion for making music, youre a fake in my book


wait.

so its not ok to be in it for the bitches.

crap.

ooooOOOOoooOOO im tellin your wife! wink

Kkrusty
Offline
Chicago, IL

I submit that it is TOTALLY ok to be in it for the bitches.

57
Offline
Camden, London

Nobody does it for the money, c'mon. It's all about the hoes amiright?