65 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

@spacetownsavior:

Your post at the top of this page was excellent and gave a very succinct and eloquent description of the function of music theory.

@protodome:

Thanks for taking the time to write that post.

I can see that jazz and classical thoughts on the subject are quite distinct.
Your post cleared up a lot of my queries and I think I will return to it in future to review some of the concepts that were outlined there. Dont take this the wrong way but personally I'm not really a big fan of jazz. Thanks for doing all that writing there, much appreciated.

I have one more question for you:

If I wanted my piece of music to be based around C harmonic minor, and wanted to write what was necessary to describe C harmonic minor into the key signature at the start of the sheet music, how would I do so?

My problem is that it has both a D and a D#, and also a G and a G# but as I only have one line each for D and G, if I write the sharp accidentals onto those lines then it indicates that all the Ds and Gs should be D#s and G#s. I'd imagine it probably it requires some flats.

C Harmonic minor - C, D, D#, F, G, G#, B

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66 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

jangler wrote:

Roman numerals aren't used for scale degrees, they're used for chord functions

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_ … umbers.png

jangler wrote:

In fact a C13 chord contains all of the tones of a Gmin7 chord

C13 = C, A#, D, F, A

Gmin7 = G, A#, E, F

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67 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

spacetownsavior wrote:

dude I JUST told you what accidentals were and you go off and use it wrong again! accidentals are written next to the notes and NOT the key signature because they are literally notes that don't normally belong in the key signature! why do you think they're called accidentals?

In music, an accidental is a note of a pitch (or pitch class) that is not a member of the scale or mode indicated by the most recently applied key signature. In musical notation, the sharp (♯), flat (♭), and natural (♮) symbols, among others, mark such notes—and those symbols are also called accidentals. - wikipedia

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68 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Fearofdark wrote:

You seem to be conflating what a 'scale' and a 'key signature' is. A scale is a set of notes, where as a key signature defines the tonality of the music. Using the C major scale is not the same as 'being in C major.'

I dont agree. If I was in C Major then all of the chords I could use would be made up of notes from the C Major scale, as specified by the key signature.

I'm also up for learning more about theory so I'll fact check the details in the rest of your post later this evening and get back to you.

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69 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

chunter wrote:

If you don't understand the functions of chords (tonic/dominant/subdominant/passing) or how those functions can fit in with scale degrees, I suggest starting there, using chords you already understand how to use. You may learn to use chords this complex with your ears, at a cost of being unable to talk to anybody about what you did. Theory exists as way to objectively understand each other

Agreed.

However, I disagree that it is worth taking the time to learn flats. Using flats is just another way to describe notes that can be easily described using natural and sharp anyway.

I also disagree that one chord can be treated as another because they share some of the same notes, especially when the other notes are not part of the scale described in the key signature.

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70 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Fair enough. They are real chords. Big, huge piano chords...Lol. Some of them are not possible in tracker arp commands because they go above 3 or 4 notes (depending on which trackers arp commands you use). Some of them go beyond F semitones but I'll write the intervals in hex anyway for brevity and relevance to tracking.

C6/9 - C, E, A, D - 0, 4, 9, E

C13 - C, A#, E, A - 0, A, 10, 9

FMaj9#11 - F, G, B, C - 0, 2, 6, 7

Bb11 - A#, D, F, G#, C, D# - 0, 4, 7, A, E, 11

Fm13 - F, G#, C, D, D# - 0, 3, 7, 9, A (for this one I don't see how "/Bb" applies).

I don't ever write any flats. I only use sharps.
Also I dont use the roman numeral scale degrees.
Yeah, cant be bothered with that. I'm a tracker guy, not a pianist
(pianists are pseudo-gei because 'pianist' sounds like p-nis).

That was a nice exercise.

Now what scales / key signatures!!! do each of those chords fit into?:

C6/9 - C, E, A, D - 0, 4, 9, E...

(C Major C, D, E, F, G, A, B : YES)
(C Lydian C, D, E, F#, G, A, B : YES)
(C Pentatonic Major C, D, E, G, A : YES)

C13 - C, A#, E, A - 0, A, 10, 9...

(C Major C, D, E, F, G, A, B : NO)
(C Mixolydian C, D, E, F, G, A, A# : YES)
(G Dorian G, A, A#, C, D, E, F : YES)

FMaj9#11 - F, G, B, C - 0, 2, 6, 7

(C Major C, D, E, F, G, A, B : YES)
(F Lydian F, G, A, B, C, D, E : YES)
(F Pentatonic Major F, G, A, C, D : NO)

Bb11 - A#, D, F, G#, C, D# - 0, 4, 7, A, E, 11

(C Major C, D, E, F, G, A, B : NO)
(F Dorian F, G, G#, A#, C, D, D# : YES)
(F Pentatonic minor F, G#, A#, C, D# : NO)
(Bb / A# Lydian A#, C, D, E, F, G, A : NO)

Fm13(/Bb???) - F, G#, C, D, D# - 0, 3, 7, 9, A

(Bb / A# Lydian A#, C, D, E, F, G, A : NO)

"Seriously dude, go learn some music theory" - protodome

In the end, out of 14, you got 8 correct and 6 incorrect.
You were still 57.14% correct.

I'd imagine you may want to make your rebuttal based on the fact that you used the word 'emphatically' in one of your examples...but a few of these were quite far off, and so you are 'emphatically' WRONG. haha...

Another thing.
In response to your declaration:

"C13: ... (you can treat this as a Gmin7)."

C13 = C, A#, D, F, A
Gm7 = G, A#, D, F

Why would you treat C13 as Gm7? It makes no sense, sorry.

Nevertheless, you chose some very interesting chords here.

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71 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

@chunter: I already listed all the chords in the link you gave me in my previous posts. but protodome's chords are unusual. I have never even heard of them before.

@sketchman: Thanks. Your right. I'll google them and list them here when I'm finished.

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72 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(11 replies, posted in Software & Plug-ins)

May your sunvox journey be super awesome!

Heres some nice tutorials to give you a nice start:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL62F5 … Jh6yiKPqE4

Live long and prosper! QAPLA!

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73 Topic by JaffaCakeMexica

(109 replies, posted in General Discussion)

@protodome:

"Okay, so the passage: C6/9 | C13 | Fmaj9#11 | Bb11 || is emphatically in C major, however requires a few different scales.

C6/9: C major, C lydian (<-- this'll sound cool), or C major pent, whichever you want.

C13: C mixolydian / G dorian (you can treat this as a Gmin7).

Fmaj9#11: F lydian / F major pent.

Bb11: F dorian / F minor pent / Bb lydian (Bb11 is performing the role of an Fm13/Bb)."

Nerdy bandcamp beef aside.

Can you break down these chords you gave in your explanation note by note, maybe explain a bit?
(for example, Em7b5 - D,E,G,A# 036A)

C6/9 -

C13 -

FMaj9#11 -

Bb11 -

Fm13/Bb -

for make great chips benefit of world

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74 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

I think its good in a way...if someone new comes to read the thread they will find a lot of nice scales and arps.

I guess what I was saying about most of the chiptune i hear these days is just that there is so much 047 and not enough more interesting ones like 048 (aug), 057 (sus4), 036 (dim) etc.

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75 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

I find it really funny how you all go on like your experts on the subject but when you write examples they are total nonsense. (with the exception of fearofdark, who was right about the B harmonic minor mistake...yes it has an A#, not an A. Melodic minor is very interesting).

@Imaginary:

Lol, that was nice. peace

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76 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

If one is prissy, how can one achieve the realization that one is completely wrong?

https://www.basicmusictheory.com/#keysig

Also, Jeffrey Lim released the source code to impulsetracker a while back...which is nice.

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77 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

The C Major KEY SIGNATURE

https://www.basicmusictheory.com/c-major-key-signature

Are you prissy much?

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78 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

@deerpresident:

I dont upload music here because it can be stolen and sold under another name.

@protodome:

What does posting a picture of a saxaphone guy and a piano guy prove, that you are a smug bish?

If you actually bother to check the facts you will find that you were wrong. I even gave you examples proving this, which you then proceeded to ignore.

You want to flex nuts but in the end you are wrong.

@spacetownsavior:

I'll admit that I used the term 'accidentals' incorrectly...As I said I dont read sheet music or play piano.

I should have said that the sharps or flats are written on the stave to show key signature (which is a description of a musical scale, such as C minor, or indeed E melodic minor).

"why do you think they're called accidentals?"

Could it be because they are notes that fall outside of the scale specified in the key signature?

Sounds like you took 15 years of classical wrong to me.

I will add that there is no need to get so emotional on your part (prissy).

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79 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

"actual Musicians" - bryFace, 2016

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80 Reply by JaffaCakeMexica

(108 replies, posted in General Discussion)

When someone says "this piece is in the key of C" it means that the piece uses the C Major Ionian scale.
So, the key signature would have no sharps or flats.

If the key of the piece is C minor, you would have to specify minor. Simply saying "this piece is in C" would not be sufficient.

If the piece is in C minor, it means that it uses the C minor (Aeolian) scale.

In sheet music a composer would specify that the piece of music is in C minor before the start of the song, by writing in all the accidentals on the stave (D#, G#, A#), because C minor is (C, D, D#, F, G, G#, A#). If the piece had no key changes, then all the chords in this piece would be made up of notes from the C minor scale. It is for creating chords and arpeggios that you would use intervals:

0,3,7 - min

0, 5, 7 - sus4

0, 3, 7, 10 - m7

0, 3, 6 - dim

0, 3, 6, 10 - m7b5

0, 4, 7 - Maj

0, 4, 7, 11 - Maj7

0, 4, 7, 9 - 6th

0, 4, 7, 10 - 7th

These are the intervals (counting up in semitones from the root of the chord...note 0, like in most tracker arpeggiator pattern effect commands) that people use to create the main chords in any natural minor key. Musical keys and musical scales are inextricably interrelated.

Again, you are wrong.

Yes, you could say that pieces in E diminished or E melodic minor are both in E, but when someone says "this piece is in E" without specifying diminished or melodic minor, they are referring to E Major (E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#).

As a man who personifies honesty and integrity I do not ignore your (incorrect) criticisms.
However, I do not take them completely to heart.

Your lack of knowledge, coupled with your misplaced self confidence, is shocking and regrettable.
Please stop all the shilly-shallying and flibberty gibberty and find the courage to change and move on.

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