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They don't seem to be so worried about receiving praise for crossing the Atlantic on a toothpick.
The only thing you can do is try to beat them, or join them, or just go on with your art and nuts to the rest.
Couldn't have said it better myself if I tried.
See, this reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. So you're saying that you might as well use real instruments/synths/whatever if you're going to bother using 2xLSDJ?
Yes, precisely. Because the line has been crossed for standard restrictions. Like two beat boxers. It's fantastic to watch, but I find it much more interesting to listen to one, because I can listen out for how to tones make up a sound. I can try to replicate the sound of a beat boxer using my own vocals. As I said, it's entirely based on what I view my reasoning for making the music, but I'm sure it rings true for many.
For starters, one more Game Boy in my gig bag takes up way less space than real instruments--portability is a factor for some of us. There are lots of little reasons someone might choose to use 2xLSDJ over another instrument.
It's self imposed limitations and restrictions once you introduce a second Game Boy. You know what's more portable than 2xLSDJ? 1xLSDJ.
A person may make the decision to compose with two Game Boys for the exact reasons you might choose to compose with one: nostalgia, forced limitations, portability, and cheap equipment.
But the forced restrictions aren't. You aren't facing the same restrictions as the composer did. Some of the nostalgia is lost, because you *can't* make the same sound as you played as a child using 2 Game Boys. You can't because the original composers didn't. No Game Boy game ever had 4 pulse waves. It's being nostalgic for a sound that didn't exist.
It's being nostalgic for a sound that didn't exist.
Depends on how you define "sound". The core sound of square waves, arps, etc, is still there. It's just moving on from that nostalgia into expanded territory. Like using a 70's skateboard to do varials.
It's fantastic to watch, but I find it much more interesting to listen to one, because I can listen out for how to tones make up a sound.
It all depends on why you listen to what you listen to. Do you enjoy analyzing it, or do you just enjoy the sounds.
I can try to replicate the sound of a beat boxer using my own vocals. As I said, it's entirely based on what I view my reasoning for making the music, but I'm sure it rings true for many.
Bringing it back to Gameboys, the only reason you can't identify with 2xLSDJ as you can with 1xLSDJ is because you choose not to use 2xLSDJ, thus you lack the internal sound palette to analyze it. Nothing wrong with that, though.
Last edited by SketchMan3 (Nov 5, 2012 10:30 pm)
But the forced restrictions aren't. You aren't facing the same restrictions as the composer did. Some of the nostalgia is lost, because you *can't* make the same sound as you played as a child using 2 Game Boys. You can't because the original composers didn't. No Game Boy game ever had 4 pulse waves. It's being nostalgic for a sound that didn't exist.
You've got that backwards. I can make every sound an old composer can. They can't make every sound I can with 2 gameboys.
And take it from a guy who composed with 1 gameboy up until this year, and has been using 2 recently:
-For every loss of limitation, there's a whole new challenge that arises. It's not what I would call an EASY process. Often times when I want to use the 2nd gameboy to write a solo, I need to make a scratch bassline and click track on the 2nd gameboy so I can hear the chord changes in context better. This is after I've switched the 2nd gameboy from slave to off. Then I'll delete the scratch tracks, reset the slave option and actually listen to it in context. Chances are I'll have to repeat this several times to get it exactly how I want it. You're also talking to a guy who just spent 3 hours editing a 2xLSDJ track trying to get 8 separated tracks (with bass drums separated from that) all lined up perfectly. Then I had to manually edit out all the artifact noises that shouldn't be there but exist for some reason (on almost every bass drum hit).
And what's the point? The point is, it doesn't matter. It isn't just all roses with 4 pulse channels. 2xLSDJ is DIFFICULT to compose with. I can't use emulators like I love to, I need to bust out a mixer any time I want to write anything... the list goes on. They all have pluses and minuses.
roboctopus wrote:See, this reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. So you're saying that you might as well use real instruments/synths/whatever if you're going to bother using 2xLSDJ?
Yes, precisely. Because the line has been crossed for standard restrictions. Like two beat boxers. It's fantastic to watch, but I find it much more interesting to listen to one, because I can listen out for how to tones make up a sound. I can try to replicate the sound of a beat boxer using my own vocals. As I said, it's entirely based on what I view my reasoning for making the music, but I'm sure it rings true for many.
Well, the point that I was suggesting is that if you want to create music with a bigger sound, yet want the portability and economy of a Game Boy, then choosing to use two DMGs as opposed to something larger and more costly would be a fairly logical choice.
-For every loss of limitation, there's a whole new challenge that arises. It's not what I would call an EASY process. Often times when I want to use the 2nd gameboy to write a solo, I need to make a scratch bassline and click track on the 2nd gameboy so I can hear the chord changes in context better. This is after I've switched the 2nd gameboy from slave to off. Then I'll delete the scratch tracks, reset the slave option and actually listen to it in context. Chances are I'll have to repeat this several times to get it exactly how I want it.
...
And what's the point? The point is, it doesn't matter. It isn't just all roses with 4 pulse channels. 2xLSDJ is DIFFICULT to compose with. I can't use emulators like I love to, I need to bust out a mixer any time I want to write anything... the list goes on. They all have pluses and minuses.
That is why I try to have the track's frame finished on 1 before fleshing it out with the second. Basslines and leads all finished, and overall structure done. Copy/paste below and dump onto cart #2 to flesh out harmonies or extra echoes or chords or whatever. Doing it that way really cut down on scratch tracks, and I can start my tracks on an emulator and keep them emulator-bound for longer.
Well, the point that I was suggesting is that if you want to create music with a bigger sound, yet want the portability and economy of a Game Boy, then choosing to use two DMGs as opposed to something larger and more costly would be a fairly logical choice.
You're still entirely missing my point. Right, the drum machine is just an example. I could have said spoon. Or a stylophone. It's just an example of something that isn't the restrictions of 1xLSDJ. It's something that isn't keeping with original GameBoy and NES music.
Why does it matter if something's not "keeping with original GameBoy and NES music"? Your argument seems to be that 2xLSDJ is inferior (is inferior the right word?) to 1xLSDJ only because it doesn't have the same nostalgia or authenticity factor as a "pure" track that uses exactly what a composer did in its golden age.
Maybe it's because I entered this scene without much connection or nostalgia for these machines, but I just don't see why this adherence to an old standard matters so much.
I think this scene benefits from both nostalgia driven inspiration and forward thinking innovation.
though most of the innovation seems to revolve around adding another gameboy to the mix or not.
Why does it matter if something's not "keeping with original GameBoy and NES music"? Your argument seems to be that 2xLSDJ is inferior (is inferior the right word?) to 1xLSDJ only because it doesn't have the same nostalgia or authenticity factor as a "pure" track that uses exactly what a composer did in its golden age.
Maybe it's because I entered this scene without much connection or nostalgia for these machines, but I just don't see why this adherence to an old standard matters so much.
for many of us, the appeal of the music is actually more than just the sonic aesthetics of bleeps and bloops. the hardware and software restrictions are also large parts of its identity. when the hardware limitations are not respected, it undermines the song's status as a musical piece that was composed in such a way to overcome limitations.
of course, i'm not saying it takes away from its overall worth as a track, just that there's a certain point where you begin to have a tradeoff of certain aspects of a song that add to its value.
take the case of 2 x LSDJ:
- more channels can make a song more impressive by virtue of thoughtful usage of the extra channels
- it can no longer be appreciated as a 1xLSDJ track
- BUT it can still be appreciated in a class of its own, with its own set advantages and limitations
- appreciation will increase over time as more listeners become familiar with the pros and cons of a 2xLSDJ setup.
Because the Game Boy was the only console I ever owned to this day and I played it well past the best before date, I can proudly say I carry lots of nostalgia for the Game Boy sound in my heart. I can understand that somebody can get worked up or be heart broken over adding stuff to his beloved sound, but to be honest, the spirit of Game Boy music can just as well be maintained with 2xLSDJ (or LSDJ plus any other instrumentation) as it can be violated with only two pulse channels, a wave channel and a noise channel. In the end it's supposed to be art and art can, will and must have the freedoms and restrictions it deems necessary to reach a certain goal. If your personal goal is to retain 100% authenticity over exploring ways to keep the spirit while enhancing possibility, that's up to you.
What I don't get is, why don't more people code their own drivers? if they're looking for new ideas with the same hardware why not write your own players? Put some of yourself into the tools you're using, that's something hardly anyone gets to do with real instruments. All the info is out there and a music driver is probably one of the easier coding tasks to undertake. (an editor is another matter)
Anyway, enough thread derailing.
So, in for a penny in for a pound, why use just x2 LSDJ? No-one else did. I feel the solo guitar instrument isn't valid. I'd compare it more to a full band, then adding another full band over the top. If you have six guitarists on stage, you either must be a member of Botch, or have a bloody good reason. Then you tell four of the guitarists that they can only use a very basic effects pedal, with very simple tone. And tell the two bassists that sometimes they may be a drummer and may need to occasionally shout "BRK", "ASS" and "TITTIES". You really have to ask yourself what it's bringing to the table.
I tell my guitar players what to do. C:
BTW, when you're making music with these kind of systems, I compare it more with a production than to a live band: how many records have just one guitar player and a lot of guitar overdubs on the top of it? Having certain number of members is a limitation too, but you don't have to settle to make an astonish production; extra channels can be used as chorus, octavers and delays, just as pedals.
roboctopus wrote:Well, the point that I was suggesting is that if you want to create music with a bigger sound, yet want the portability and economy of a Game Boy, then choosing to use two DMGs as opposed to something larger and more costly would be a fairly logical choice.
You're still entirely missing my point. Right, the drum machine is just an example. I could have said spoon. Or a stylophone. It's just an example of something that isn't the restrictions of 1xLSDJ. It's something that isn't keeping with original GameBoy and NES music.
No, I didn't miss your point. You were just so completely dismissive of using a 2nd Game Boy (calling it "useless" based on the idea that Pokemon was invented just to use the link cable...or something like that). I was merely trying to politely explain why someone might decide to enhance their sound by adding a second Game Boy as opposed to something else, citing economy, portability, and providing the same nostalgic sound-set.
I mean, we're having a discussion on the merits of using two DMGs, which is an esoteric topic for super chip-nerds, to be sure. 
take the case of 2 x LSDJ:
- more channels can make a song more impressive by virtue of thoughtful usage of the extra channels
- it can no longer be appreciated as a 1xLSDJ track
- BUT it can still be appreciated in a class of its own, with its own set advantages and limitations
- appreciation will increase over time as more listeners become familiar with the pros and cons of a 2xLSDJ setup.
You're giving listeners a lot of credit. I'll be going out on a limb here and claim that most listeners who are not also Game Boy composers (or at least musicians with technical know how of the platform) won't be able to tell that it was not made on one Game Boy simply by listening. Only the savviest ones will be able to say "meh but it wasn't a 1xLSDJ song... so screw it" if they even care. The average listener will be able to notice a richer soundscape and if it serves the particular song probably enjoy it, too.
I am so confused by this thread. It's like asking if bands should have one guitarist or two. Horses for courses.