Zef
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Unfortunately it seems that in any conversation or thread the negative points stand out to people the most. Many people on the noisechannel thread defended chipmusic, but it was only mention snobbiness that was carried back here by 4mat, Just like many people only brought the negative experiences they've had at chipmusic over to the thread on noisechannel, while many good experiences were overshadowed.

I'm acting on behalf of Noisechannel here and officially extending the olive branch. Can't we all just get along?

Subterrestrial
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The Hollow Earth

Guys guys guys, I was only making a joke about how "oh noes, 8bc is down!" threads get locked here Cheezus K Reist! It's not like it isn't true and it doesn't need to be blown out of proportion either. It's obviously a bigger issue for some people than I realized, but let's all settle down and take a deep breath....

roboctopus
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Madison, Alabama
Zef wrote:

Unfortunately it seems that in any conversation or thread the negative points stand out to people the most. Many people on the noisechannel thread defended chipmusic, but it was only mention snobbiness that was carried back here by 4mat, Just like many people only brought the negative experiences they've had at chipmusic over to the thread on noisechannel, while many good experiences were overshadowed.

I'm acting on behalf of Noisechannel here and officially extending the olive branch. Can't we all just get along?

I feel like even my original statement was misconstrued, as I was referring to the anti-8bc sentiment that I see on here from time to time, which is confusing to an outsider.  I mean, I came here from 8bc looking for a little more in-depth conversation, but when you show up and find people deriding a site you really like, it is a bit off-putting. 

However, it has been explained to me that there's some sort of bad blood, so I kind of understand the sentiment a bit now.  I like a lot about this site, but there's clearly a history that I don't understand.

nitro2k01
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Sweeeeeeden

roboctopus, here's a short summary. This site was created as a spinoff from 8bc in early 2010 mainly due to certain issues with the owner of 8bc, Jose Torres. I won't go into too much detail on that but it involved a stolen hardware and software design for the cartridges he was selling, a line of new products that turned out to be vaporware and lost money for a small number of people. And then to top it off, he banned or even deleted the user accounts of people who criticized him for it with explanation "my site, my rules".

And secondly, there's a more general attitude of mocking 8bc for being filled with noobs who, for example, don't know how to plug in an audio cable between a Gameboy and soundcard line input. And there's a lot of truth to this, unfortunately. After that question was asked a few times, someone wrote a sarcastically easy "spoon feeding" guide to recording. I'll see if I can find it once the site comes back up.

godinpants
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hardcore, Australia

For the threads here about 8bc getting locked, i think the general idea is that you wouldnt go to burger king and ask why mcdonalds wasn't serving big macs anymore.
It's not that it's an issue of competition and rivalry, but that chipmusic.org isnt the 8bc support page.

Edit: also i think here, there is a large group of us who get along well, and know each other. That and the smaller user base kind of gives the impression of a closed group.

Not to distract from noisechannel.org, but i think the reason cm.org has the userbase it does is because there was a reason for us to move. Right now noisechannel is just an extra site i may check on the side.

Last edited by godinpants (Jul 7, 2011 1:19 am)

roboctopus
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Madison, Alabama
nitro2k01 wrote:

roboctopus, here's a short summary. This site was created as a spinoff from 8bc in early 2010 mainly due to certain issues with the owner of 8bc, Jose Torres. I won't go into too much detail on that but it involved a stolen hardware and software design for the cartridges he was selling, a line of new products that turned out to be vaporware and lost money for a small number of people. And then to top it off, he banned or even deleted the user accounts of people who criticized him for it with explanation "my site, my rules".

And secondly, there's a more general attitude of mocking 8bc for being filled with noobs who, for example, don't know how to plug in an audio cable between a Gameboy and soundcard line input. And there's a lot of truth to this, unfortunately. After that question was asked a few times, someone wrote a sarcastically easy "spoon feeding" guide to recording. I'll see if I can find it once the site comes back up.

Yikes!  That's some serious stuff.  I joined 8bc in 2006 and really liked it, then took a few years off from chip to finish grad school/write folk music about drugs, and when I got back into chip last year, suddenly there was a new site and some weird vibes, and I never could quite figure out what was up, which is why I say it is off-putting to an outsider.  I really like a lot of the community, but sometimes it feels like navigating an invisible maze or some shit.  I can see where you're coming from though.

However, you lost me with the derision of noobs.  I'm of the mindset that you should nod and be polite and wait for them to de-noob.  Today's noob could be tomorrow's churlish veteran, after all!  wink

Theta_Frost
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Milwaukee, WI
roboctopus wrote:

However, you lost me with the derision of noobs.  I'm of the mindset that you should nod and be polite and wait for them to de-noob.  Today's noob could be tomorrow's churlish veteran, after all!  wink

I actually see where this is coming from.  As hard as it can be, we can all try harder.  You should see my first posts on 8bc.... sad

nitro2k01
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Sweeeeeeden

I think we come from different backgrounds. I've had a mindset of helping people for a long time, but at some point you get jaded. 8bc is saturated with users who ask the same questions, even when there are reference posts with the information they're looking for right in front of their eyes. You can tell they're not even trying, but want other people to do all the work for them. It's not about being a noob per se, but the lacking attention span and/or low age. At some point you realize it's not worth your time. If they have the skill and motivation, they will find a way eventually.

For example, when people ask if it's worth prosounding their DMG, I usually give them the advice, tongue-in-cheek (or not), that they should make at least one song that's really good before considering a prosound.

Also, I agree very much with what godinpants said.

Anyway, back to the topic, perhaps?

BR1GHT PR1MATE
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BOSTON

cm.org has always seemed to me to be more about the forums than the music, and i think that with 8bc down to 2megs per track and like 50% up-time, there is definitely a sort of chiptune community vacuum that needs to be filled: a song-focused site that nurtures those looking to develop their technique and get feedback on their compositions. this site seems to be focused on exactly that, so, hey, awesome. they even have their own "new old school peeps" so that nitro doesnt have to answer every n00b question.

Now all it needs is misfitchris to drunkenly troll the boards, and it'll be well on its way to being an official chiptune forum

Last edited by BR1GHT PR1MATE (Jul 7, 2011 4:14 am)

Zef
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I certainly agree with a lot of what's being said here, noobs can definitely get frustrating sometimes, it would be nice if they could at least find their way to google sometimes.

I'm hoping that noisechannel can find its own niche. It's planned to be a music hub encompassing a netlabel, shop,  competitions, events (including live webcasts), and audio streams (kind of like radio). It's a long shot from where we are now, but a month ago the site didn't even exist so it's coming along quickly. Fingers crossed!

Last edited by Zef (Jul 7, 2011 5:14 am)

e.s.c.
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IL, US

for more info on the 8bc/chipmusic.org split, you can read what goto80 wrote http://chipflip.wordpress.com/2010/01/1 … leepbloop/
though nitro & bleo did pretty damn well at summing it up

Frostbyte
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Thanks for the clarification, everyone. I think Noisechannel is doing very well for itself, and I think for the newer generation of artists (like me), it's a great start and a wonderful idea.

Granted, it has its bugs, but there's always room for improvement. It's running smoother now than it did a week ago.

kineticturtle
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Matthew Joseph Payne
nitro2k01 wrote:

8bc is saturated with users who ask the same questions, even when there are reference posts with the information they're looking for right in front of their eyes. You can tell they're not even trying, but want other people to do all the work for them. It's not about being a noob per se, but the lacking attention span and/or low age.

This is key. There are tons of "quiet noobs" who do their research, don't ask any stupid questions, maybe ask for CC a couple times, and then come out with a respectable release, seemingly out of nowhere.

Subway Sonicbeat
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Brazil

And that's something I "hate" on 8bc: the absurdy amount of Construtive Criticism threads.

kineticturtle
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Matthew Joseph Payne

Yeah, but that's a problem with the system, more than the user (at least in theory). CC needs to be somehow separated from the rest of the forums, or made into a function of the music part of the site, or SOMETHING other than a subforum that gives everybody notifications.

Subway Sonicbeat
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Brazil

The thing is that this culture of CC was created in the reign of people who are here now. We were always saying how good songs where overwhelmed by shitty one and how we should be polite and help the n00bs. Now it's like a monster, people who make songs just to receive CC, and that defeats the purpose.