1,249

(178 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Battle Lava wrote:

A step towards thinking about ourselves and what we do and how to go about it differently is great.  If a price tag can do that, then so be it, go for it. But, does it do that? Since I'm not really providing any real alternatives, I guess I have to agree at this point, don't I?
(note: but i would much rather find an alternative tongue)

Maybe one step would be to stop calling it chipmusic. That's not really a genre, at least most of the time. Is it house? Techno? Rock? Metal? Ambient? Folk? If I open your MP3 in iTunes and I see "chipmusic" or "chiptunes" in the genre field, that might make me think one way of it. If I see an actual genre, that will make me think another way. It will certainly do something to separate the music from the medium. Likewise if the music video / cover art has some actual art rather than just a picture of a gameboy. Etc.

Essentially how we package and describe it, aside from the selling price.

1,250

(178 replies, posted in General Discussion)

It's not that people think they are legitimizing something by purchasing it... not at all. It's that people think something is legitimate because it costs more than free. All this applies to before the sale, not after (in this case a "sale" is also someone downloading something for free).

I think ultimately you have to put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know anything about making music or the music "industry" (or scene or community or whatever you would call it). I'm not trying to be condescending by calling people "listeners" or "common consumers," I'm just trying to underline the fact that we think very differently from people who don't make music. If I told a friend of mine that I make music, but that I give it away for free and I play shows, but they are free shows, they would probably think I'm an amateur (in the negative sense) and that I must not be very good if people wouldn't pay to see me. Moreover, if I told my mom that I make music, but I don't make any money from it, then she would say that I'm an amateur and that it's not a real profession because people aren't paying me for anything. They would be jumping to a conclusion, and have no idea of my real reasons for doing so, but when you put your music online and someone happens across it, there's no explanation attached... the conclusion they would jump to is all they have.

In the end most people define "professional" vs. "amateur/hobbyist" as whether or not you make money from it. That applies to everything. And people think professionals are better than amateurs.

In thinking about this more I know what legitimizes something for me... what people say about it. I knew little-scale was worth checking out because a lot of people were saying he makes great music and that I should go get "Error Repeat." The opinion of others, especially tastemakers (blogs, DJs, etc.) and more importantly, my friends, is what influences which bands I'll check out and what I think of them. I don't like The XX, but I know a lot of people who do, and therefore I consider them to be good at what they do, because they have a lot of fans.

It's interesting because in the end, I think that's the real answer to the issue of "what makes a song legitimate," what people think of it. But this is an interesting discussion because it makes you think about the attitude people have towards free stuff vs. not-free stuff... "someone's giving away perfume? Must be some new product or maybe it's not very good. Maybe I won't even bother taking one." vs. "This perfume costs $500? Must be high-class stuff! I wish I could afford it." In the end, this still applies to cases where a potential listener comes across something they haven't heard of, and none of their friends have... in that case the "what people think of it" doesn't apply at all, unless it means people don't think of it therefore it might not be good. Then it becomes a matter of how it's packaged... is it on a record label? How much does it cost? What's the cover art like? etc.

That's the last I have to say for this... as I said, it's not really the answer here, but I think the argument has some valid points.

Battle Lava wrote:
Decktonic wrote:

you know what I'm gonna say so I'm just gonna say it... some DS10 would be nice big_smile

LAME!11!1!! tongue

No really! I was thinking about it and I wanna see DS-10 Dominator... it would probably be the one way to get him to come stateside!

1,252

(178 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Battle Lava wrote:

There is no difference between "this is a good song and you should buy it because it's good" and "you should buy this because this is done with 2 channels on a single gameboy" because money is quantitative not qualitative

Money will not prove to you that "people appreciate it because the music is genuinely good and not just because it's technically impressive." They're not related.

Good point! But I think 4mat's point was more just "chipmusic is as good as anything else sold via iTunes, and therefore should be valued the same way by those making it.

WHICH of course opens up a whole religious battle about what music is worth, and how artists should sell their work (or not sell it at all), and money vs. art, sex vs. cash, etc. etc. that I don't think anyone wishes to open up here... even if this is a thread about chipmusic sales.

I'm just saying that if I had paid $0.99 for little-scale's "Come Back To Me," I would be much more satisfied with that purchase than some of the stuff I've actually bought on iTunes. Would selling it instead of giving it away for free "legitimize" it as quality music? Not to those of us who really appreciate such art. But a lot of the "common consumers" think that way. I've seen the following two statements on music blogs many times:

In reference to something available for sale: "You should totally buy this, it's great."

In reference to something available for free: "This would totally be worth buying, but it's actually available for free." Also "Even though this is free, it's really good and you should check it out."

As I said, I know we don't think that way but it's not about how the artist thinks, it's about how the listener thinks.

SKGB wrote:

had to miss his only show in philly cause the ex got stupid drunk and was about to pass out.

I hope this is why you dumped her.

1,254

(39 replies, posted in Collaborations)

He first posted on 8bc and they ran him out with trolling.

Then he posted here and they ran him out with elitism.

It's kind of a funny story.

AdamGetsAssholes

Cool lineup. Kinda makes me wish I weren't such an east coast snob smile

1,256

(39 replies, posted in Collaborations)

Too bad, he & piksel blue could have made it big.

Alesis Bitrman has a compressor. Works pretty well I guess.

e.s.c. wrote:

hey guys, dont too many people jump in, ive already had a bunch of people contact me besides those that were already in..though i guess the rest could maybe rent a 2nd van and we could roll together
smile

Rent a wagon and hitch it to the van.

trollface.jpg

1,259

(178 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Battle Lava wrote:
4mat wrote:

Yeah, personally I think we should be selling our stuff just to "legitimise" it to an extent.

 

4mat wrote:

We want to move it away from being about the equipment we use and more what we're making with it?

How do these two things co-relate?  How does spending money "move it away from being about the equipment we use and more about what were making?"

I don't get this because money is an abstracting medium.

Do you mind elaborating? I don't want to start a war I'm genuinely interested.

I think I can comment on this but I'm sure 4mat will have a better answer.

A lot of chiptunes seem to be made for the purpose of showing what can be done with a limited platform. Look at beeper music for example. In many ways it's "listen to the sounds I was able to make with 1-bit music" rather than "listen to the song I made." Songs are made for competitions and then all given away for free, because the competition is about the challenge of creating on the platform, not the songs themselves. Everything that gets uploaded to 8bc.org says "1x DMG 1x LSDJ" or "home-made drum machine + bent stylophone." Basically, a lot of the chipmusic community is about making music for the sake of proving what can be done with the hardware rather than making music for the sake of making good music.

And when it comes to legitimizing a certain style or type of music, it's important to move beyond the novelty of "look what I can do," where people appreciate a song because it was "hard to make" but wouldn't put it on their playlist with the mainstream stuff because it's still a fringe sound. If I'm playing my DS10 songs at a show, I don't want people in the audience scratching their chins and saying to each other, "oh hey that's a nice snare sound he was able to make with that software," I want them to dance around and have a good time because the songs are good.

Basically, I want people to stop saying "Neil Voss does amazing things with LSDJ" and instead say "Neil Voss makes great music." Moreover, I want people to appreciate it because the music is genuinely good and not just because it's technically impressive.

That's why selling our songs like other types of songs are sold, and saying to people "this is a good song and you should buy it because it's good" rather than "you should buy this because this is done with 2 channels on a single gameboy" is so important.

My $0.02.

1,260

(56 replies, posted in General Discussion)

I don't know how long it would take if I did it all in one sitting... maybe 3-4 hours... but I usually end up spending 2 weeks with my free time and I'm usually working on multiple songs at once.

1,261

(6 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Here it is!
http://www.christianmontoya.com/2010/06 … camp-page/

And here's something else for bleo: http://decktronic.com tongue

1,262

(265 replies, posted in General Discussion)

Who cares about 8bc. Let's talk about this snowstorm. No snow here, just icy rain... go figure.

1,263

(178 replies, posted in General Discussion)

noisewaves wrote:

but i dont consider this band or myself as even closely "a career" endeavor, so would charging money for the album be treating it a such?

this is where i feel bandcamps "pay what you want" option is great.

All the Cheese N Beer releases use "pay what you want" with no minimum. It's a good model.

Here are some other ideas:

- the album costs some amount but a few of the songs (an EPs worth) can be had for free
- the album can be had for free in average quality MP3 but can be purchased in high quality
- the album can be downloaded for free / any of the above but you can sell a limited quantity of physical copies

etc.

Essentially, be creative. If the music is good, people will pay something for it... it's just a matter of what you are willing to give away.

you know what I'm gonna say so I'm just gonna say it... some DS10 would be nice big_smile